Moria

"As for myself," said Eomer, "I have little knowledge of these deep matters; but I need it not."
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Wainrider
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Something I've noticed on my (many) rewatches of Fellowship of the Ring that never really sat right with me: As the Fellowship gets on their way after leaving Imladris, just before the Crebain from Dunland show up, Gimli brings up the option of passing through Moria rather than "going the long way 'round" and noting that his "cousin Balin would give us a royal welcome." Gandalf responds that he would not take them through the mines unless "there were no other way." Gandalf therefore knows - or at least strongly suspects - that Moria is overrun with orcs and there are no surviving dwarves in the mines. Why does he fail to mention this to Gimli or anyone else? I would think it would be germane to discuss. Even if the pass of Caradhras was unsafe to travel, the Fellowship would have done well to have more information about what dangers awaited them in Moria.
Not all who wander are lost...except that guy. He's DEFINITELY lost.- JRR Tolkien, probably

Crafts Master
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I think the point, certainly in the book is that nobody knows. The last word anybody had out of Moria was from Balin's expedition after which all word dried up. Gandalf, and possibly Aragorn, have misgivings about Moria but nothing that could be the basis of such discussions. Certainly Gimli himself would very likely not have been to receptive as his desire to see Moria would have overtaken anything Gandalf would have told him, especially if it was only supposition on his part.

Master Torturer
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The Doylist (out-of-universe) explanation is that PJ has a persistent habit of showing his hand early even when it decreases tension. As Thorin mentions, none of the book characters know what's waiting for them in Moria. Boromir is the most suspicious, saying it would be a trap, but Gandalf reprimands him for comparing Moria to Barad-dûr and expresses hope that Moria is entirely free from orcs, since they had (he thinks) not recovered from the Battle of Five Armies. Jackson, on the other hand, has a limited appetite for slow-building tension, so Gandalf clearly knows what's coming and the other characters find out the moment they enter Moria and are confronted with Dwarf skeletons, which were not present in the book. But the plot demands that the Fellowship go through Moria, so they do so despite the altered circumstances.

(For another example from just before the Moria sequence, Gandalf all but explicitly tells Frodo that Boromir is a traitor, but otherwise does nothing to protect him or the Quest itself.)

I'm not sure there's a good Watsonian (in-universe) explanation to be had here. Perhaps Gandalf anticipated finding evidence of the Dwarves' annihilation just beyond the Doors of Durin, thereby quieting Gimli and--were it not for the Watcher in the Water--allowing the Fellowship to turn around and take a different path without further objection. Or maybe he thought there was an outside chance that the situation in Moria was better than he suspected, and he didn't want to scare the rest of the Fellowship (or at least the Hobbits) before being absolutely certain. Which would not necessarily be wise, but this is hardly the only case of movie characters making odd decisions because they were required to do the same things as their book counterparts even when it no longer makes sense.
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Wainrider
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@Eldy Dunami I was noticing that PJ loves to tell everyone what's about to happen on screen quite frequently, doesn't he? :smiley9:

Yeah I suspected as much as you two are confirming, that Gandalf had strong suspicions, Gimli was either willfully ignorant or excessively hopeful, and that the situation was not as clearly spelled out for Gandalf in the books as was implied in the movies (with it implied he know that Moria was overrun with orcs and that there was a Balrog down there)
Not all who wander are lost...except that guy. He's DEFINITELY lost.- JRR Tolkien, probably

Wise Ent
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I think that in Book!Canon, Gandalf, and to a lesser extent Aragorn, were worried about the fact that nobody had heard anything from Balin or his expedition since they got to Moria. If everything was fine there, then there would have been trade, letters, SOMETHING. Gimli might have been blinded by the fact that it was Moria and it was Family! and maybe he wasn't expecting much contact for a while. Different expectations.
Show!Canon? Yeah, gotta build the "oh crap what is going to go wrong next?" vibe.
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, for You are Crunchy and Good with Ketchup.

Herald of Imladris
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I would definitely say Gimli was a hopeful person, as has been said, it was his family and dwarven home. Gandalf grew suspicious of a lot more so after the betrayal by Saruman, but I think there’s a good point about the lack of trade and contact giving an unbiased basis for a learned person to infer something was amiss. Aragorn and Boromir would’ve recognized that as well, but would Legolas even think about it? Dwarves and elves you know, took a while for their friendship to really emerge.

Otherwise we could talk about was Gandalf really forgetful or was he trying to railroad them in some other way around it. Because let’s face it, he was definitely a DM NPC for plots :smiley9:
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. - Gandalf

Melkor
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I was more bothered that Gimli referred to it as Moria instead of Khazad-dum. It would be like if my home was known as piggyland when it's really something else, and I said something like "let's go back to piggyland, my home, where you will have a great feast!"

Wise Ent
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True, @Rivvy Elf ....saying Moria more than once in the context of puzzled Hobbits going "what is Khazad-Dum??" "Oh, it's also called Moria in your tongue" is kind of strange.

@Nurbor, I agree about Aragorn...he would have known to maybe be suspicious. I'm not sure about Boromir. Minas Tirith is a fair distance away from Khazad-Dum after all! And Boromir was busy being Captain-General of Gondor and fighting. Probably would have heard that someone had gone back, but might not have paid much attention to anything after that. Now, Faramir on the other hand? He mighta known enough to be wary like Aragorn and Gandalf.
Do not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, for You are Crunchy and Good with Ketchup.

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