Lettuce talk about the Upcoming Amazon LOTR TV series

"As for myself," said Eomer, "I have little knowledge of these deep matters; but I need it not."
New Soul
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So in case you haven't heard the news, Amazon is launching a LOTR TV series. It is probably going to be set in the second age, and will probably discuss Numenor, the creation of the Rings of Power, Sauron, and whatever happened to the Entwives. What are you anticipating with glee? What are you dreading with horror?

Anticipating with glee:
Celebrimbor (rings of power!)
Numenorean Sea Voyages (the character-building through conversations over months span!)
Sauron (we get to see him with a body!)
Khazad-dum!


Dreading with horror:
Celebrimbor (uhh, please don't make him like his character in those non-canonical games)
Numenorean Sea Voyages (...the character-building needs to be written well or it's going to be a blue desert)
Sauron (please cast the right person for this)
The lack of Khazad-dum (:()

Elven Enchanter
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I'm somewhat apprehensive about it, but also really looking forward to getting to see stories from the Second Age on the screen. I would love to see the story of Beren and Luthien, though I think that's First Age, so who knows what kinds of stories we might be getting. There certainly is a lot of material to explore.

Also, it really bothers/annoys me when people refer to it as a LOTR series. It isn't LOTR! It's a Middle Earth series and I'm fairly certain one of the stipulations from the Tolkien Estate was that it couldn't touch anything to do with the Third Age.

Warrior of Imladris
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I am optimistic. The tales from the Second Age are not nearly so fleshed out as The Hobbit and LOTR. I am hopeful this is a great opportunity for the creators to use their imaginations, while still sticking to the tales so that the books fans do not get too upset.

I would love to see it set around Celebrimbor, particularly Ost-in-Edhil. What would an Elven kingdom would look like if it didn't have to hide itself away, like Imladris, Lothlorien or the Woodland Realm? Almost 1,000 years of unbridled construction and creativity? I can't begin to image, but I believe it would be magnificent.

Crafts Master
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I am very apprehensive about it. I am very dubious of a major studio like Amazon using as a basis a part of Tolkien that they have great capacity to invent things because little is known about it. I am concerned that what they invent won't be at all Tolkien. In the same way that the part of TTT that PJ and co invented wasn't Tolkien at all. I was reassured when I read Tom Shippey was involved but now he is no longe rinvolved, and we don't know why, I am once again concerned.

New Soul
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I’m excited to see what they come up with, especially with Amazon money behind it. I think going into the Second Age is a good idea so it’s not a reboot of LOTR. I’m excited to maybe see a young(er) Galadriel, Gil-galad, see the rings of power. But like Thorin points out, who knows how true to Tolkien it will end up being

New Soul
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Over the years -- oh dear, that makes me sound old -- I think I've grown less persnickety about adaptions. If it conjures the right atmosphere, I'm willing to put certain details aside and enjoy the ride for what it is -- another chance to see/engage with/talk about the story. Of course, part of talking about the story will be complaining about what they left out/added in, but in general I am excited to see what they come up with. I don't expect perfection, but I am hoping for interesting.

Desperately pining for:
Narvi and Celebrimbor
Gil-galad (!!)
Elros
Ents
Great music

Most worried about:
So many fewer people have read the Sil, UT or HoME than The Hobbit and LoTR. Amazon knows this, and it's easy to imagine things going very, very far afield. I also suspect I will hate most or all of the inevitable original characters.

New Soul
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Entwives! I am most excited about the hope of entwives! I'm keeping an open mind about the whole thing. Can't wait!

Newborn of Imladris
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I am with Aerlinn on the desire for great music! I fear that without Howard Shore, it will not be Middle-Earth for me!

Other than that, I'm not really getting excited. I am used to being let-down by film makers butchering source materials!

Orc
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Numenor was by far the most interesting Era / Region in the broader Middle-earth lore to me. I even had the Kingdom of Numenor as House on the old Plaza! That said, I'm worried about the degree to which a TV Series about Numenor will make the time period and individuals seem less epic / interesting than they did based just on the stories we got from Tolkien. I'm not excited to see Numenorean daily interpersonal drama, even though I know that kind of stuff happened because the Numenoreans were humans after all. I just think a TV show opens itself to the need for more 'filler' story arcs and I'm not really interested in that.

Guard of Citadel
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I'm excited to have something to be excited about!

Maybe it will feel like the Game of Thrones series, looking forward to every new episode week by week. And to rewatch once a year/every few years. That'd be amazing!

Or maybe it'll be like Legend of the Seeker, which was sadly disappointing the first few epsiodes, and then became just something to watch while IM'ing with palls. And then something you never really finish.

OR it could be like Shannara. Acceptable and fun to watch just that one time.

Orc
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Oh man I had forgotten the Shannara series had come out. Will have to look that one up.

Sadly I don't think the production quality for the Lord of the Rings series will be up to the same caliber as something like Game of Thrones. GoT was the most expensive TV show ever produced on a per-episode basis and I don't think anything will come to rival it for a long time. I think we'll get something between Witcher and Outlander in terms of overall production/costuming quality.

Scholar of Imladris
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The Shannara series was, uh, something.

I'm kinda ambivalent on Amazon's LOTR* series. There's a lot of potentially really interesting stuff in the Second Age, but short of "Aldarion and Erendis" (which I would be shocked if they attempt to adapt), any large-scale story set in the era will necessarily have a cast of mostly original characters. I don't think that's automatically a flaw, but it makes this a fundamentally different endeavor than the PJ trilogies. If the original characters and invented subplots are not interesting in and of themselves, I think it'll be a lot easier to lose interest, whereas I kept watching The Hobbit films (multiple times apiece, even :?) despite not considering them good.

*As noted, it'll be set well before The Lord of the Rings, but people have been using LOTR as a synecdoche for the legendarium for a long time, and I'm lazy so I go with it as a convenient shorthand. :P

Orc
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Eldy wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 7:07 pm ...If the original characters and invented subplots are not interesting in and of themselves, I think it'll be a lot easier to lose interest...


That's kind of what I was getting at with the idea that they might focus on the everyday lives of Numenoreans. It's not something that's generally the purview of stories from Middle-earth, but I can very much see them going this route. To me, that would be wholly unsatisfying and gravely uninteresting.

Prince Imrahil
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I'm just incredibly fearful that they'll turn it into a Game of Thrones-esque show, with things I'm not really interested in seeing in Tolkien's world. Like sure, I imagine that many of the things that we saw in GoT happen in Middle Earth as well, but I just don't really want to see prostitutes in Numenor etc, ya know?

Elven Enchanter
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Ta'leus Shieldsong wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 12:10 am I'm just incredibly fearful that they'll turn it into a Game of Thrones-esque show, with things I'm not really interested in seeing in Tolkien's world. Like sure, I imagine that many of the things that we saw in GoT happen in Middle Earth as well, but I just don't really want to see prostitutes in Numenor etc, ya know?
Agreed. For the most part, Tolkien's work seems to fit in to the family friendly category and I'd like it to stay that way.

Khazad Elder
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I really hope that they show Khazad-Dum at some point and introduce new and amazing dwarf characters. My favorite part of the Hobbit was the Dwarven lore and characters and I really hope they don’t miss out on this opportunity. My guess is they will focus on the Rangers and Elves but Dwarves will be a one or two episode arc. Hopefully not.

New Soul
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Ta'leus Shieldsong wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 12:10 am I'm just incredibly fearful that they'll turn it into a Game of Thrones-esque show, with things I'm not really interested in seeing in Tolkien's world. Like sure, I imagine that many of the things that we saw in GoT happen in Middle Earth as well, but I just don't really want to see prostitutes in Numenor etc, ya know?
Yes! The ongoing grimdark/edgy trend worries me. I don`t hate everything that`s come out of it but it`s worn me down a bit and I don`t want to see that sort of darkness and pessimism applied to Tolkien. In the aftermath of the GoT craze (and I loved the books! didn`t finish the show) one of the things that really struck me was how much drama, tension, depth and yes, darkness, Tolkien brought to LoTR despite a rather low body count.

That`s not true of the Sil or UT of course, but Middle-earth has always been fundamentally hopeful to me and I don`t know if I trust Amazon with that. Nevermind the potential for less than family friendly content, which could easily break the atmosphere.

Orc
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Part of the broader appeal of Lord of the Rings over something like Game of Thrones is its broader audience given the tamer content, more colorful world-building, etc. While the characters might have less depth than some in GoT, it's really the story and the world that draws you in and the richness of the languages, history, and broader themes that hold on to you.

That said, I'll watch the show no matter what. But whether it's a show I'll *keep* watching and watch more than once is another question.

Crafts Master
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My main fear is how tight a grip the Tolkien estate have. In my experience, big studios only usually have as much respect for the source material as they are contractually obliged to have. I understand Amazon are restricted by the estate to a point but I am fearful that they will find some way to get around such agreements when they interpolate their own material. Also, is there any indication that their own inventions will be quality checked to make sure they are true to Tolkien? The fact is Tolkien crafted his world in such a way that, any additions stand out like a sore thumb.

Ent High Elder
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Like most people here, it seems, I'm also apprehensive about the new series. Given the amount of money that is being dumped into this by Amazon, I have do doubt they'll get the "look and feel" right. That was one of the greatest things about PJ's movies (even the Hobbit ones) - they nailed the "look and feel" of the setting and characters and costumes.

I'm personally okay with the Tolkien Estate keeping such a tight grip on certain storyline elements (particularly Silmarillion material)...though I wonder if Christopher Tolkien's passing will cause a shift in their thinking in this regard. I'll probably watch it and I'm hopeful there will be some fun and interesting storylines, but I hope they have a good writing team together that can also put together a consistent story. One of the biggest flaws of GOT was the inconsistency of the story and what actually mattered/didn't matter. Internal consistency, particularly with mythology, is a huge component of good storytelling.

New Soul
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Part of me would love to see Numenorean faction politics play out... for good or bad. If it's bad, hopefully it's so bad it will reach Star Wars Phantom Menace meme-worthiness. 40 minutes of debate on debate procedure and motions!

Orc
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Rivvy Elf wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 3:55 pm Part of me would love to see Numenorean faction politics play out... for good or bad. If it's bad, hopefully it's so bad it will reach Star Wars Phantom Menace meme-worthiness. 40 minutes of debate on debate procedure and motions!
See I actually liked the politics of the Phantom Menace when I got a little bit older, but I realize why it was widely mocked and panned by critics at the time, especially for a movie geared more towards children who couldn't care less about the procedures and politics of the Republic Senate. The dialog on the other hand? Hoo boy was that bad. And that's some of what worries me about a LotR TV show: they'd be manufacturing most of the characters, situations, and dialog amidst a familiar setting/storyline/backdrop. Just too much could go wrong there. Look what happened to GoT once they got outside the confines of what the books had established.

New Soul
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Yeah, Phantom Menace's politics aged well. But the script... How many books of cliches will be gone through by the end of the series? The last seasons of GoT went through about 5 cliche books and turned Jon Snow into a pokemon with the way he kept on repeating the same lines. How many unique variants of Amandil saying "no, don't do it!" "don't do it!" "do not do this" "this, you cannot do!" "please don't!" will we hear to whatever Ar-Pharazon does?

Scholar of Imladris
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SECOND AGE EPISODE I:
THE KING'S MENACE


Turmoil has engulfed the Númenórean Empire. The taxation of trade routes to outlying colonies in Middle-earth is in dispute.

Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Guild of Venturers has stopped all shipping to the small port city of Pelargir.

While the Council of the Sceptre endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, Tar-Palantir, King of Númenor, has secretly dispatched two Faithful knights, the guardians of peace and justice in Andúnië, to settle the conflict....
Last edited by Eldy Dunami on Fri May 15, 2020 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Esquire of The Mark
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Worry: Women. Adaptations of Tolkien never seem to be able to do the women justice without changing them too much. Fleshing a character out is one thing, that's necessary considering how little the women featured in some parts, but changing their personalities or motivations is another. It didn't JUST happen to women (poor Faramir) but it's particularly tempting to do it to women.

They will most likely add some new female characters and I dread what they will come up with.

New Soul
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Eldrith wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 4:20 pm Worry: Women. Adaptations of Tolkien never seem to be able to do the women justice without changing them too much. Fleshing a character out is one thing, that's necessary considering how little the women featured in some parts, but changing their personalities or motivations is another. It didn't JUST happen to women (poor Faramir) but it's particularly tempting to do it to women.

They will most likely add some new female characters and I dread what they will come up with.
Yes, I'm concerned about that too. It is key that they figure out a way to properly develop women in the TV series.

Which is a lot of the reason why I actually want a well-executed Aldarion and Erendis tale. It has the potential to be one of the best parts of the TV series if done well (if they even do it) if Erendis is portrayed well. Here we have a blossoming courtship leading to a marriage, but for very understandable reasons the relationship frays the more time Aldarion spends years and years away on sea. There's a lot of potential here for character development for Erendis, because we know she voluntarily leaves the Numenorean court to return to her farm.

Of course, that relationship is not easy to write, but it's doable and should be easier than expected given its applicability to modern-day relationships.

Orc
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Eldy wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 4:18 pm SECOND AGE EPISODE I:
THE KING'S MENACE


Turmoil has engulfed the Númenórean Empire. The taxation of trade routes to outlying colonies in Middle-earth is in dispute.

Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Guild of Venturers has stopped all shipping to the small port city of Pelargir.

While the Council of the Sceptre endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, Tar-Palantir, King of Númenor, has secretly dispatched two Faithful knights, the guardians of peace and justice in Andúnië, to settle the conflict....
See...you joke...but I would watch this show in a SECOND haha. The larger machinations of society in general, and the factors that contribute to the situations and circumstances our characters find themselves in, are way more interesting to me than the mundane everyday details of how these 'hero' characters get on.

Ent High Elder
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Rolling on the floor laughing at this...this is brilliant :smiley9:
Eldy wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 4:18 pm SECOND AGE EPISODE I:
THE KING'S MENACE


Turmoil has engulfed the Númenórean Empire. The taxation of trade routes to outlying colonies in Middle-earth is in dispute.

Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Guild of Venturers has stopped all shipping to the small port city of Pelargir.

While the Council of the Sceptre endlessly debates this alarming chain of events, Tar-Palantir, King of Númenor, has secretly dispatched two Faithful knights, the guardians of peace and justice in Andúnië, to settle the conflict....

Khazad Elder
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Wow Eldy, that is great.

And yeah the fear is that there is no good balance between modern TV wanting to mature and darken, and the Tolkien estate probably fighting that. So it will be this weird mashup that tries to make both happy. But I hope that is not the case, I think that a mature but respectful show is possible. I have high hopes because I have seen who is involved, and who is doing the art. And now i just will temper expectations and hope for the best.

Orc
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Oro wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 6:31 pm Wow Eldy, that is great.

And yeah the fear is that there is no good balance between modern TV wanting to mature and darken, and the Tolkien estate probably fighting that. So it will be this weird mashup that tries to make both happy. But I hope that is not the case, I think that a mature but respectful show is possible. I have high hopes because I have seen who is involved, and who is doing the art. And now i just will temper expectations and hope for the best.
I think we all agree the show is going to *look* great which I think is important. And I have faith the creative minds they've got working on this show will do a good job with what source material they're allowed to use. But you're right, I'm not sure they'll be able to strike the right tone to make the show as enthralling as the LotR movies were so many years ago. What I hope doesn't happen is basically just Downton Abbey in Middle-earth :smiley9:

Khazad Elder
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Ohh please no. You have just unleashed a nightmare on me. I wont be able to sleep at night. Downtown Abbey in Middle earth?

I agree about the visuals although I think the problem with following up the movies is they may try too hard to imitate the style or they might overdo the graphics trying to be better. Either one of those is a bad situation for me.

And I have loved what Ive seen from the creative minds so far.

Scholar of Imladris
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I was a little surprised at how well TPM and the Akallabêth mesh, but I can think of far worse stories the Amazon series could try to tell. :smiley15:

I actually have a soft spot for "slice of life" stories that take place within elaborate fantasy settings, where you get to really dig into the nitty gritty worldbuilding details of everyday life, but I recognize that's a somewhat niche taste and I'd be surprised if Amazon goes in that direction. For a series that will cost the better part of a billion dollars, I expect we'll get a fantasy-adventure tale rather than my daydreams of Númenor in the model of Ascendance of a Bookworm or other non-action isekai anime. :smiley8:

Elven Enchanter
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I too hope they get the look and feel of Middle Earth. And please stay away from CGI! There was way too much of that in the Hobbit movies.

Eldy: I love you blurb. Not sure how I'd feel about actually seeing something like that, but the premise is hilarious.

Weathered Ent
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I dread this. Modern TV adaptations tend to butcher classics. BBC did a nice job on Pride and Prejudice, but when Hollywood got ahold of it they butchered it. Amazon butchered Tom Clancy's series too. They completely changed some of the characters. They will probably do this to the history of Middle Earth.

So I may watch it in fascinated horror. It will probably resemble nothing of what J.R.R Tolkien wrote.
Last edited by Oak on Sat May 16, 2020 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Crafts Master
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Color me dubious but interested. I hope they stay with the tone and flavor of JRRT's books. I'm worried they will make them 'contemporary' to fit current sensibilities. I'll give it a couple episodes.

Weathered Ent
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If they do that is will not have a Tolkienesque flavor. It will just feel like another modern fantasy TV series. There's plenty of those.

I get thoughts of Dragon rider in middle earth, or a hoppit marrying an elf. Are are they going to add a slate of characters that Tolkien didn't even create for the TV series?

But I will still give it a shot.

I still think of those weird hair styles and beards they gave the dwarves in the hobbit moves.

Scholar of Imladris
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Oak wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:50 amAre are they going to add a slate of characters that Tolkien didn't even create for the TV series?
I don't see how they can do anything else. There just aren't enough relevant "canon" characters for any individual story of the Second Age, maybe excepting Aldarion and Erendis, to create a screen adaptation without making extensive use of newly-created characters. And even when you can draw names and very basic biographical facts from Tolkien's works, the screenwriters will still have to invent most of their personalities, motivations, relationships (not necessarily romantic), etc. Assuming they have access to HoMe, that will give them somewhat more material to work with; for example, the fragmentary versions of the story of Pharazôn and Míriel published in The Peoples of Middle-earth contain some really interesting insights into their characters that could be of use to writers, even though Tolkien rejected much of the material in those brief texts. But the supporting cast is practically nonexistent. With Númenor, there are names you can mine from The Lost Road and The Notion Club Papers (including Orontor, Fíriel, Almáriel, and Voronwë), but most of them barely qualify as characters.

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In before we get Ghan Buri Ghan's ancestor playing as a Jar Jar Binks-like figure to guide the Numenorean knight Erech (pronounced Eric) to create the Stone of Erech, which is used as a plot device to create an alliance with the people who live in the Paths of the Dead.

Khazad Elder
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See, Oak, the Tom Clancy series on Amazon was definitely not Tom Clancy but it was still very enjoyable TV and the characters made sense and I really enjoyed the intrigue and storyline. Maybe it was just me but I felt that it was a good “Tom Clancy” styled story without the exactness of Clancy. If they can make something as quality as the Jack Ryan series I will be happy with it, because I do not expect it to be Lord of the Rings, just fantasy that uses the name of Lord of the Rings. Personally.

Orc
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I guess the dividing line in all this is a) people who will see a LOTR tv show as a success as long as it's mildly faithful to the source material while also being entertaining, or b) people who see a LOTR tv show as a success as long as it's very faithful to the source material. We had a similar split with the movies and people believed they were faithful to the books to varying degrees.

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As much as a LotR lover as I am, I have reservations about it because, after all... it's a show and they want ratings. look at what they did to the Hobbit movie *sobs* if they really want legit opinion, they should come to us. Yeah right-- can you imagine us in a focus group for this? Most of us would bring in our books and literature and fight harder than Hermione Granger for corrections and accuracy.

Anyway, I'm fairly excited about it in general, as a new TV show. I need another "period" piece to watch after His Dark Materials. I'm all about Downton Abbey-esque things. The development and honestly, I think we need that in something like this. It's not just about the important players. We should be able to see the world as a whole, yes?

Now let's discuss views on the Shadow of Mordor video game...... :smiley10:

Orc
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Lealnemarr wrote: Sat May 16, 2020 2:49 pm Now let's discuss views on the Shadow of Mordor video game...... :smiley10:
Phenomenal. And Shadow of War was even better! Haha.

All the different TV shows we're citing - His Dark Materials, Downton Abbey, Shannara, Game of Thrones - are so wildly different in terms of quality, tone, substance, that this LotR TV show really could end up in any number of places.

Weathered Ent
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I will still watch it, but I have no hopes it will resemble anything of the books. As has been said further up in the thread. Anyone who makes a TV series, they are looking for ratings. They want the series to sell. They are not necessarily trying to get it to sell to the Middle Earth fandom. The positive I see coming out of something like this, is that it will attract more fans to the Tolkien community, just like the Clancy TV series attracted more fans to the Tom Clancy books.

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Yeah I think its hard to know what it will look like at this point: it could be taken in so many directions with so many different styles and themes you can focus on. As Reikon has mentioned, the plethora of shows we've mentioned here just goes to show the number of different ways it could be taken.
I think it's very likely we'll see a tighter character-drama focused show that slots as neatly into drama as it does action - they will want to capitalise on the success of other shows that have followed that same formula. I am still hopeful we can get something faithful to the tone of tolkien's works but I also look forward to see the new ideas that come from such an unbound era of the legendarium.

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I'm really looking forward to it just from an entertainment standpoint. I kind of watch things blankly without much consideration so I think (or hope) overall, it will be enjoyable just as a cinematic perspective and storyline. I really hope, though, it's not mishandled and that Amazon's directors and screenwriters truly keep to the heart of Tolkien's work and that they do their research and read read read all the information at their disposal to create a good story arc. Tolkien did such a great job creating a world and the people in it, even if you take some dialogue and visual liberties, there's so much to go off of that can just enhance and bring it to life, than to ruin it like *cough* The Hobbit *cough* I really just want a great epic like the trilogy - and even a fairly good screenplay like Game of Thrones was (until the last couple seasons). If they keep to Tolkien's work, then I think it'll be really fun!

Weathered Ent
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My concern is that it may be grossly mishandled just to make it sell. It may look like an extended fan fic rather than the History of Middle Earth. I hope they will have people on staff that will do their research. There is actually a lot of material to work with when you look at what Tolkien wrote.
Huorn of Fangorn

New Soul
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I have very little expectations for it. That is to say, not in a negative way, just in a ... there are so many directions that this could go-- and while the almighty dollar and trends do tend to often influence for the worse, that isn't always the case.

I'm on the same page in some ways with Nessila, here-- after years of reading books and then seeing them made into movies and tv shows, or seeing show/film first and then reading, I've developed a very separate way of viewing the forms, and try to go in with a blank slate (as much as possible). I think having worked in theatre for so long, and watched how differently things can translate from one medium to another, I've let go of a lot of expectations.

That said-- it's a different thing to lose the integrity of the work (which, I'll grant you, is a vague and potentially loaded phrase), but I think roughly the point being that I expect some liberties to be taken-- it's a different medium.

Take the liberties done in lotr vs. the Hobbit films. Some clear examples of what was done to try to sell something (in the Hobbit's case), that really did not work. (Well, I suppose it did, for many people.) As opposed to the many alterations that were done with the trilogy, and yet-- they maintained the feeling of the work.

It makes me think of translating-- when you translate art, poetry, fiction, especially-- you have to choose where to make sacrifices, because there aren't necessarily exactly words that are going to mean what you need. But those sacrifices and alterations can often lead you to capture the larger sentiment, style, and meaning of a piece.
they/he/mischief

Weathered Ent
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IMHO the film is never as good as the book. It is a challenge to get the visual medium to meet up with the expectations of the book. I was raised on the Tolkien books. So I was spoiled that way. The whole Tauriel subplot in the Hobbit didn't work. It didn't even follow spirit of Tolkien's works. It seems more like a fanfic subplot that you would find on the website like Deviantart.

But I am not going to get my hopes too high. They are going to turn this into a TV series. They have to generate material that have to stretch into a TV series.
Huorn of Fangorn

Khazad Elder
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@Mor Toast That is exactly the best way to view mediums though. No two mediums are the same, and a good book straight translated will almost never make a good movie. A good filmmaker takes the theme and the feeling of the book and translates it, less the exact plot and characters. Sometimes there have to be edits, and while some filmmakers do this poorly, sometimes fans also are overly harsh on changes that actually make the movie a better movie than it would have been without. For instance with Lord of the Rings the entire Tom Bombadil sequence. Sure it would have been fun to see it, but would it have made the movie better? I dont think so. I think it would have detracted from the film experience.

New Soul
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I will argue that Forrest Gump, Shawshank Redemption, and both Water Margin TV series were better than their books :P

Edit: the Tom Bombadil part legimately made me and some of the people on this site want to throw the book down and not read anymore. It was only on my second readthrough that I didn't purposefully skim the part. If they put the part in the movie, people would leave midway through the cinema to take a bathroom break. And that is completely fine since I doubt Tolkien wanted the type of fame where he would sacrifice an important part (to Tolkien at least) of his work to adapt on screen. It is almost impossible for Tom Bombadil to no-sell the power of the One Ring, and for it not to kneecap the One Ring's role as the big bad of all 3 series.

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