The Inter-Kingdom Fun Stuff Planning Place

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Ent High Elder
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Okay, just looking for some feedback here. Very very preliminary rough draft of an OP/"Rules" for a Practice Debate match:

Debate is a team-based event in which two sides argue either for ("Proposition") or against ("Opposition") a certain topic. The object is for your team to convince the Judge that your side is correct.

Timeline of a Match
- Sign-Ups (1st-4th of month)
- Teams Announced and Planning Begins (4th-14th of month)
- Main Argument Phase (14th-21st of month)
- Rebuttal Phase (21st-28th of month)
- Last Word Phase (28th-30th of month)

Word Limits
All of the debater’s words and quotes are included in the word count. Titles and section headers, color coding / legends, and IC intros and exits are all excluded from the word count. For this Debate, word limits will be cumulative per team in each phase of the Debate.
- 8000 for Main Argument
- 2000 for Rebuttals
- 1000 for Final Word

Debate posts may be as long or short as the poster wishes provided the team does not exceed the word limits for each phase. Main Arguments may not include direct rebuttals of arguments made by the other team. Rebuttals and the Final Word should not include any new arguments but may reiterate points already made by the team.

Scoring
Each Main Argument post is worth up to 50 points. All of a team's Main Argument scores will be averaged for the team score.
Each Rebuttal post is worth up to 30 points. All of a team's Rebuttal posts will be averaged for the team score.
The Final Word post is worth up to 20 points.
There will also be 10 points awarded for "Team Unity" (how well your arguments all fit together and how well the team proved their point).

If Judges have certain preferences or scoring breakdowns/rubrics, they should provide them at the outset of each Debate.
Fangorn Forever

Ent High Elder
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Since we'd just be doing a Practice Debate, we're not necessarily bound to the 1-month timeframe. Here's a tentative (potential) timeline:

August 17-22 Sign Ups
August 23-Sept 2 Team Planning Phase
September 3-9 Main Argument Phase
September 10-16 Rebuttal Phase
September 17-20 Last Word Phase
Debate ends at 11:59pm on Sunday, September 20.

My thought was depending on how many people sign up, to split the teams approximately evenly in half. Teams can decide among themselves who will do Main Arguments, Rebuttals, etc. Not everyone would be required to do both. Ideally, every team member would post at least once, but that would not necessarily be required. A team could post Main Arguments any time during the Main Argument Phase (ideally spacing them out a little bit and not dropping all of them right before the deadline). Teams could post as many (or as few) as Main Arguments + Rebuttals as they desire, within the Word Limits.

Honestly, the Word Limits are mostly in place for the benefit of the Judge. Back in the heyday of IK Debate when we had 4 matches per round, we were essentially publishing more words in those 4 matches (~125,000 words) than the entire Hobbit book (~95,000 words). :googly:
Fangorn Forever

Khazad Elder
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Image

The Dwarves have always used the Cirth (rune characters designed to be cut into a surface, rather than written with a brush or pen). Word has come to the ears of the Dwarves that a new mining shaft has been opened and a rare tablet has been discovered. The translation of this tablet dates back to days of Durin I the Deathless. The hunt is now own to discover more tablets. Grab your spade and join the Dwarves as they delve into the past.
Here we are on the NU Plaza:
1.This is Word Sleuth with a twist. WS RP. One must RP in character in your game posts instead of just posting your play. A storyline will be posted (like the one above) at the beginning of the match and prompts will be given at each update to keep the match interesting and the RP going.
In Khazad-dûm, you my RP as a dwarf or your own character. But be warned, the tunnels are only 5 feet (1.52400 meters) high. If you are one of the tall folk, you may have to be bent over for long periods of time. If the game heads to another Kingdom, same rules apply (not the height thingy) How does this sound to everyone?

2. Distribution of the letters. The way I see this being done is, Mod will need your email or some way of getting your letters to you, if you decide to play. Rules of the game state that the letters should be hidden from your opponent. Or, we can just post them in the game thread so that everyone can see them. Any comments on this?

3. No teams. The first 6 people to sign up, play. Sign up will end in 36 hours from the OP post. What do you think?

4. Game updates - 36 or 48 hours?
The world was fair in Durin's Day

Elven Enchanter
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I do like the idea of incorporating RP into the game. It’s something that has been encouraged, but not required in the past.

As far as I’m aware, WS letters were usually posted publicly, but it’s not a hard rule. This would probably depend on who is playing and if they’re comfortable giving out email/discord information.

So I’m assuming this is a six way match?

As for the time limit, when I ran Word Sleuth earlier this summer, the 48 hours seems to work best.

Khazad Elder
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Yes, I have always thought the games should be RPed. But there were more members back in the day, and if just didn't seem necessary.

Yes, on the Old Plaza letters were not hidden from your opponents. I believe we started sending the letters to team captains when we got PM privileges and private planning threads. Though, I cannot remember when that happened, do you?

Yes, a six way match or teams of two maybe if there is enough interest.

Once a match is over, say in KD for example, the next one could be in a different Kingdom with a storyline to suit that Kingdom. Then the next Kingdom, etc., etc..

I had a blast yesterday going through all the old words sleuth threads. I am not sure I found them all, but here are a few. I actually starting playing WS in 2004. Crazy! It might of been in 2003 before the league started but I have not been able to find anything on the WB machine. Man I was a mouthy dwarf back then. *grin*

I still have a few of the old game boards too.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040310161 ... Position=2

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=2

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1

http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/display_ ... Position=1
The world was fair in Durin's Day

High Lord of Imladris
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So I was a fan of racing (cause I sucked at every other interkingdom thing)

and I know we don't want to do the same old so I thought of an idea for making things a bit different

SO a season would literally be a year long event... with one race per month, in a kingdom (certain kingdoms would be held in other kingdoms like Isengard would be in Fangorn, and Lothlorien in Imladris until they got their own kingdoms) that race would be held in a different kingdom every month With a Home Team Vs Guests.

So we would have as many members of the HOME team as want to participate, and as many guests as want to participate.

And the top 3 winners from each month would move onto the final which would take place in January

Since there are 9 kingdoms here is how I envision the schedule++


January - Championships race (held in kingdom that has most racers this of course will give Fangorn and Imladris a bit of a boost in chances of hosting but for now it stands the decorations will be of the most represented team... I'll come up with graphics)

February - Break Month

March, April, May, and June - First half of the season kingdoms will be chosen at random via dice)

July - Break Month (people often get busy during summer and are less active so give them a break here so other threads can get more limited activity rather than a race)

August September October November December - Second half again order chosen by Dice.




The big question is do we want to have a set animal for the home team and then have a free for all for the guest teams? Or should every kingdom have a set animal as before?
Sereg a Dîn

Khazad Elder
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Looks like a doable schedule, Fuin. I personally have never participated in the races back in the day. I would have to refresh my memory. May be a link to an old thread could be posted here, for old folk like me who seem to forget more easily now. *grin*. The Dwarves had badgers, right?
I have a question/suggestion. Could the RP challenge in these matches be a maximum 250 word post?
The world was fair in Durin's Day

High Lord of Imladris
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I think I would do a minimum 100 word challenge answer for them, rather than a maximum word post. That way those that weren't 100% comfortable doing a lot of rping wouldn't have to do much while those that love it could go much longer without getting in trouble.

I don't think I have access to an old thread

The basics were originally 7 turns which were done by rolling the dice certain numbers were forward certain were back with challenges for some of them. I believe it was a d20 to roll with a max of 5 forward??? Not entirely sure... I'd come up with rolls and challenges easily enough. I might look at making it 15 turns that way people can do multiple updates as they won't be a daily requirement as the previous races were only 7 days long

And I think it was Rohan that had badgers actually, but it might have been the dwarves, I know there were Cheetahs , Lavasnakes, rabbits, I know there were badgers as well, but not sure what everyone else had. I think we may want to come up with new creatures for places that way it's a bit different could do wolves, spiders, deer, chickens,

IF someone can find a race on the wayback machine I'm okay with it being shared
Sereg a Dîn

Hobbit Child
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@Mojo - Thought I smelled out some faint vestiges of Robert the Plant. Debate? Where? When? Please?

Healer of Imladris
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@Fuin Elda I think IK racing was one of the first things I ever did on the Plaza and I'd love to see it back! I like the idea of a long season, and home team vs. guests so that people can drop in and out instead of committing to every single race. Regarding the schedule...I agree that July is a good break month, but was also thinking December might be better than February? I know Feb. is ideal for the rest of the schedule, but as people get busy with Christmas, New Years, and other holiday things it might be hard to keep the momentum going for the last race.

For animals--while these days I usually fall on the side of maximum chaos, I think having the same animal is good for kingdom camaraderie, especially since guest "teams" will be mixed. That said, despite my longstanding loyalty to Imladris, I will immediately switch kingdoms for a raccoon. :lol:
Top-class Canine Alter Ego Associate of Aerlinn Mordagnir

High Lord of Imladris
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hahahahaha good to know @Aigronding Mordagnir HOW MUCH DO I NEED TO FIX IT so that Imladris or no where has Raccoons?

I think dwarves were actually raccoons before....
Sereg a Dîn

New Soul
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I'm pretty sure we had badgers of Rivendell once but I would gladly have raccoons instead! There's so many of them around my neighborhood so I've taken a greater liking to them recently. And I'm not requesting them for Rivendell because Linny wants to switch kingdoms if anyone else gets them, honest :rofl: .
"Eriol... 'One who dreams alone.' ” - Tolkien, The Book of Lost Tales I

Khazad Elder
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Here is a link. Very colorful league. *o*
The world was fair in Durin's Day

High Lord of Imladris
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It's got an issue isengard was rats but Rohan was not I'm going to guess skunks so no 4acoons fantastic. I'm going to go to each kingdom and ask if the want to stay with their home animal or change lay out a few race schedule upuons... Actually there wego for the poll I'll ask what schedule they'd rather Jan to June June to Nov with Feb and Dec off or the original one
Sereg a Dîn

Chief Counsellor of Gondor
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Gondor originally had the skunks because, well .. black and white, aren’t they ? :lol: Gondorian colours. :headbang:

My only concern for inter-kingdom races, inter-kingdom poetry, inter-kingdom debates or anything inter-kingdom related really .. is that not every kingdom may be able to scrape together enough active members to make up a ‘team‘. :shrug: So far it’s been the case on Nu plaza that any random kingdom has hosted a game and any/every one who’s simply active and interested enough to join in has done so. Regardless of their kingdom alignment.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost.

High Lord of Imladris
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Sigh it might have been raccoons in Rohan then. Bugger. anyways.

@Ercassie

This wouldn't be particular teams just whoever wanted to play that month, with Home team vs everyone else type deal so it's whoever wants to play can play more so than rosters (IK racing is honestly probably the only one that can REALLY easily make this leap) Am gonna do a poll of IK racing schedule shortly and then I'm gonna go around and ask kingdoms what animals they want as their racers just in case people want to change because sometimes they do... I know I am against Cheetahs. I think we should have chickens or weasels or something
Sereg a Dîn

Chief Counsellor of Gondor
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So you mean a ‘home team’ wouldn’t necessarily have to be made up of a team of actual members from the hosting kingdom, per game ? Maybe just a group of plazaites from any kingdom who would just RP with the animals chosen to represent that host kingdom, for that one game, against visitors with all/any kinds of animal that each enthusiastic racer brings from their own home kingdom ?

Honestly not trying to criticise here, just trying to understand. :winkkiss: While Mordor and Rohan are super active, you might be hard pressed to find even three consistently active Wizards or Dwarves or Gondorians. Just as an example. Which is where I started wondering how it would work in this far smaller catchment of members.

And as far as animals go, could we not simply go Tolkien ? That would inspire more people to RP as Middle Earth critters etc. Many Earth animals after all are also ‘native’ to Middle Earth, but it would probably eliminate cheetahs for you. :googly:


EDIT : Now I have seen your ‘there will be no set teams/you do not need to sign up for a team proposals in the other thread, that explains it all away. :thumbs: It was the concept of a ‘home team’ vs all other visiting competitors (As in an ‘us’ and ‘them’ type race with multiple participants) that was causing me confusion. I’ll just go away and sit quietly in a corner someplace and leave you to it. :tongue:
Last edited by Ercassie on Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost.

High Lord of Imladris
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Honestly at this time the home team make up is not set I was thinking actual kingdom members but I haven't set that in stone, but I have set that colours and animals will be for certain teams... So that is something that is certainly doable especially if we have limited interest due to size of some kingdoms.

Honestly I think the kingdom that will have the hardest time fielding competitors is Lothlorien I've seen more Wizards and Dwarves and Ents wandering around doing things than I've seen Lothlorien elves.

And I am just gonna ask kingdoms what animals they want and do it that way. May end up with Cheetahs but I doubt it I think given the option for something different would have certain members jump on that I know some kingdoms are very very attached to their previous animals.
Sereg a Dîn

Chief Counsellor of Gondor
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Think I may have been editing my last post at the same time you were replying to it .. :googly: Regardless, I’m sure that all who do participate will have great fun. :nod:
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost.

Istari Savant
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@Blackrose Bugg is back now too?! Any hope to drag Hoth out of retirement as well?

@CHAOS and @Someone else - Didn't really read the whole exchange, but in the last couple seasons of debate on the old plaza, we had signups for teams with preferred sides of the argument. We tracked things on the basis of individual players, so we had a few ways to compile stats so that individuals could get some recognition (e.g., top average score, most participation, etc), as well as averaging across the kingdoms/regions, so that there was still an inter-kingdom feel to it. Also, before that, we had a couple kingdoms that merged their teams ("Loriengard" was such a merger, and Rivvy probably needed it at one point).

Might not be suitable to racing, unless you work in some other angle. But figured I'd throw it out there as ideas to chew on.
What, she killed them with mathematics. What else could it have been? - Jayne Cobb

High Lord of Imladris
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@Túrin We've got the test run up for how to do it so we don't have to deal with sign ups if you want to go take a peak and possibly participate it's happening in the Shire.

As for Hoth don't know Beebs came on for a day and I ahven't been able to get a hold of either one since... I have Hoths personal facebook page which is where I got a hold of Beebs oddly enough... But they are in a fire area so something may have happened since then. Am still trying to get a hold of Hoth or Beebs again at this point.

High Lord of Imladris
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OKAY so the IK test race ended today with 6 out of 11 racers finishing. Not bad I do know that back when I was on OP that that was often the average for how many racers finished a week long race... so not terrible considering it was a test.

Things I've noted :

Switching to A/B rolls (A for D6 B for D20) Forgot that was how we did it and there were requests for B rolls. etc. So I am okay switching them to A/B rolls. to keep that format across the board with non-ik racing to avoid confusion.

Lore based questions - Only a few of them got answered properly - should I drop the lore ones completely? Or should there be set 'penalties' like you have to RP your racer out of X situation before you can continue racing'

OTherwise how was it? were the B/D20 questions fun to work with?

Are people willing to submit some D20 based questions specific perhaps to their kingdom so that I don't have to come up with everything (Will admit about Day 15 I ran out of my preset questions and everything after then was me winging it for questions and hoping more people would get nat 1's and nat 20's)

Do we want the D20 rolls changed a bit? I actually have a randomizer with the numbers from 2-19 able to change but the values will be the same but their placement will be different on the dice)

Khazad Elder
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No time tonight to answer all your questions. I will get back here to do so in the next couple of days.
I had great fun participating, and would race again. Dragon enjoyed it too!😉

Thanks for bringing it back and running it, Fuin! ❤️
The world was fair in Durin's Day

Storyteller
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@Fuin Elda, firstly I would like to say I really enjoyed the race and am very grateful for all your hard work with it. Thank you! I am very much looking forward to participating in the actual league races.

Regarding switching to A/B rolls - out of habit I know I accidently asked for a B roll a couple of times, so I'm sure it'll make things more familiar if you were to switch it back to that.

Regarding lore based questions - I'll be honest I didn't even realise there were lore based questions. Maybe lore questions could be labelled as such? Looking back now, I could take a guess that maybe these were some of the lore questions...
"Your bunny sees something interesting at the edge of the track and must investigate it. It appears to be an item that Mr. Bilbo forgot when he went off on his unexpected adventure. What is it?" ? (answer: his napkin) ?
"You think you see a dragon, and run the other way explain what it is that you ACTUALLY saw." ? (answer: Gandalf's dragon fireworks) ?
"Your racer has found a pocket hand-kerchief and returns it to it's owner who's was it?" ? (answer: Bilbo's) ?

Were they some of the lore questions? I had just assumed they were RP prompts free for interpretation.

Regarding RP prompts: The prompts were enjoyable. You've got a good list of them now for the Shire race, but I'd be happy to contribute some B rolls prompts for other kingdom races, after some clarification on the above mentioned lore question situation. As for enforcement, I do think it should be a requirement to answer the prompt or lore question before your next roll can be actioned.. and if you get a lore question wrong, perhaps your next roll counts but you lose one point (i.e. progress 3 points instead of the 4 you rolled).

Regarding pacing and participation: I think that running the race over the period of one month worked perfectly. I also appreciate that not all of us can be around regularly, so all it would take for a Wizard or a Lorien elf to participate would be one post asking for 15 A rolls. That might annoy someone who has made 15 posts, but really it doesn't matter, if it means that more kingdoms can have at least some kind of representation.

Regarding Mordor: I know I previously advocated for each kingdom having one set animal, and it looks like most or every kingdom except Mordor is happy with this arrangement. However, seeing there were many minions interested in the return of IK racing, then seeing none of them come and represent Mordor as a snake, seemed like a bit of a shame and may have been a little bit telling. Perhaps Mordor could be the exception, and race under the banner of "Nasties" or "Pests" or some such name of their choice, and within their crate there could be a selection of bats, snakes, warg pups, vultures, undead chickens, or whatever else they fancy as long as the animal isn't too big or isn't an animal already used by the other kingdoms.

Okay that's a big wall of text, which might make it look like I think lots of things should be changed. But really I don't. I enjoyed the concept and format a lot. :grin:

Chef
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I had great fun as well!

A/B-rolls
Yes, I was more used to those. It would be easier perhaps to keep it that way?

Lore based questions
Like Dwim I now realize that perhaps the examples he mentions were actually lore based questions? I thought that - since we all know what Mr. Baggins forgot - I had to come up with something new/creative. I had no idea that it would cost me points if I didn't answer the 'right' way because it didn't sound like a question to me that had to be answered as a lore question. I like the idea of lore based questions though, but it might be good to mention it when they are lore based, or to make a rule that in case of a B roll all even rolls are lore based and all uneven ones are not? Something like that would make it clear to all (who read the rules, lol).

RP prompts
I liked them! And yes, good idea to have a fitting set for every kingdom. Or we could come up with special themes, like 'winter' or 'Christmas' and make the RP prompts fitted to that.

Pacing and participation

A month is perfect! And perhaps an update every 2 days so those who are not there on a daily base don't get too far behind? With a month mostly being 30/31 days it would be perfect (15 rolls times 2).

Anyhow, I am looking forward to the next one and I sure hope to have some more inter-kingdom competition then!
Please state the nature of the medical emergency!

Khazad Elder
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Wow that was the longest couple of days ever. :googly:

I agree with Dwimmerlaik and Eamila:

A/B-rolls :thumbs:
Lore based questions: questions should be labelled as such.
RP prompts :thumbs: I like the idea of the prompts relating to the kingdom the match is being run in.
Pacing and participation: whole-hardly agree with Eamila.
The world was fair in Durin's Day

High Lord of Imladris
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OKAY so for IK racing

A/B Rolls are happening no issues there.

Lore questions: We'll have them but there will not be a 'set proper answer' more of a lets see how entertaining an answer people can give (thus no penalties for answers) it does give us a method for getting questions were we don't have to think of everything. Because I like being lazy sometimes

Glad everyone likes the Prompts per kingdom idea.

Pacing: We'll continue with updates once a day with the exception of dead days. That way people that have a short burst of availability in a month aren't out of luck if they can do two posts in a row so they can be more active in a spread out method and those that don't want to be active daily don't have to be.

Mordor: Actually had a fair number of racers from there but they chose to race as conies. Which honestly is fine. That's the whole point they can race as whoever they want to - and they did get semi-creative with their conies like Frost in a bunnie onesie (HONESTLY I WANT TO SEE A SCARY CAVE TROLL pick up a skunk to race and the hilarity that may ensue over a terrified skunk and a cave troll crossing paths) If we don't get any Mordor racers ever... then we can reassess but one race where we did have Mordor participating (just not as themselves isn't an overly fair test... after all we also had nobody at all from Lothlorien, Isengard, or Gondor.)

As for the season when it starts I am thinking dice assigned locations for season one in terms of order. Hopefully the three kingdoms I listed will have a few of their members show up for the races but if not that is again also still fine. We're getting more members all the time so eventually we'll have enough people interacting that we will get members from them.

@Drifa @Dwimmerlaik @Eamila Bolger

Khazad Elder
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Oops, I forgot about this, again. Rules and game set up look good to me, @Fuin Elda! I am not particular about any of the points you have outlined, I just want to race. :grin:
The world was fair in Durin's Day

High Lord of Imladris
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SO I've set up the schedule basically for where racing is going to be since that starts in 13 days... Tried to keep the double kingdoms spaced out more (Imladris/Lothlorien and Fangorn/Isengard)

KD
Lothlorien
Mordor
Isengard
Shire
Imladris
Gondor
Fangorn
Rohan

I've got almost 50 questions for KD ready and continuing to get more every day hoping to get up to 100 as that'll hopefully carry me through at least 3 weeks so I can work on Lothlorien questions lol before scrambling to come up with more KD ones)working on the graphics for all of them, not going too crazy - Just team colours behind the IK racing for the checkering.

I also have the B rolls ready for scrambling with of course the exception of 1 and 20 which will remain constant.

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