What is 'the Afterworld' in the 4th or any other age? Sounds like where dead characters go. So your guess might be right, only I do not understand it. Please elaborate.
Also, any chance of just a tiny clue to help us get going in Fangorn?
Riddles in the Dark
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
This is what next was seen. Which would be the Fourth Age, right?The riddle is what next was seen?
...And so also, at
the end of this Tale of Years, he moved 'outside the frame' of the story,
and looked further on to the later lives of Gimli and Legolas, of
Faramir and Eowyn and Eomer, the reign and the deaths of Elessar
and Arwen, and the realm of their son Eldarion in 'the Afterworld'. HoME vol. 12
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Well, thank you for the explanation.
No, not the 'Afterworld'.
No, not the 'Afterworld'.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
@Chrysophylax Dives given your reply to Drifa, "So your guess may be right, only I do not understand it," I'm going to guess... the Halls of Mandos, dwelling place of the dead, also known as the Halls of Awaiting.
Nice to note also, that the walls there are hung with tapestries depicting the events of M.E's history, therefore, all of the events mentioned in your verse would be seen there.
Nice to note also, that the walls there are hung with tapestries depicting the events of M.E's history, therefore, all of the events mentioned in your verse would be seen there.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Alternativelyc, I'm seeing a series of ships sailing to and from M.E which between them outline the history of Middle Earth. The last ship appears to be Earendil:
"One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone."
I'm thinking the next ship seen may have been The White Ship, that which Gandalf, Bilbo and Frodo et al. sailed upon. Of course, this theory will sink (hahaha) or swim on the literalness of there being three and only three ships, as there have been Elves leaving Middle-Earth for sometime.
"One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone."
I'm thinking the next ship seen may have been The White Ship, that which Gandalf, Bilbo and Frodo et al. sailed upon. Of course, this theory will sink (hahaha) or swim on the literalness of there being three and only three ships, as there have been Elves leaving Middle-Earth for sometime.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Wow, I am learning so much. I never even came upon this 'Afterworld' before - have to go read it. Reminds me of the late-Victorian dons of Cambridge whose letters I used to read when doing a PhD. They talked of the 'Afterlife', by which they meant the world that the student entered on graduating from the university. As for the tapestries hanging on the walls of the Halls of Mandos, again I never noticed the detail but compare Tolkien in 1936 on the Old English Beowulf:
But no, the answer to this riddle is neither the Afterworld nor the Hall of Mandos. However, @Periantar your alternative vision is certainly looking in the right direction...None the less we may still, against his great scene, hung with tapestries woven of ancient tales of ruin, see the hæleð [ancient heroes] walk.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Is the riddle why a Dwarf was willing/be received/or permitted to sail over the Sea?
But when King Elessar gave up his life Legolas followed at last the desire of his heart and sailed over Sea.
Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book.
We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli Glóin's son with him because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love, or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it. But it is said that Gimli went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him. More cannot be said of this matter.
The world was fair in Durin's Day
No, the riddle is not why a Dwarf...
Putting out a riddle there is always this worrying first few days because of the fear that it is so obvious and will be guessed at once. Now, however, I have settled down to enjoying this...
Putting out a riddle there is always this worrying first few days because of the fear that it is so obvious and will be guessed at once. Now, however, I have settled down to enjoying this...
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Three ships is what I see,
Sailings of a mythical history.
One brings the king to Middle-earth
On wings of storm as the world is bent.
One bears on a sea-wind
the king who returns.
One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone.
Three ships, as they appeared to me.
A mythic end of my own history.
A frame of story sharp and keen,
The riddle is what next was seen?
One brings the king to Middle-earth
On wings of storm as the world is bent.Elendil?
One bears on a sea-wind
the king who returns. heir of Elendil, Aragorn?
One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone.Stone of Elendil?
I can not see anything obvious here except Elendil. But I will not guess again till it feels right.
Sailings of a mythical history.
One brings the king to Middle-earth
On wings of storm as the world is bent.
One bears on a sea-wind
the king who returns.
One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone.
Three ships, as they appeared to me.
A mythic end of my own history.
A frame of story sharp and keen,
The riddle is what next was seen?
One brings the king to Middle-earth
On wings of storm as the world is bent.Elendil?
One bears on a sea-wind
the king who returns. heir of Elendil, Aragorn?
One sails out of Middle-earth
Taking on the straight road
Not the king but his Stone.Stone of Elendil?
I can not see anything obvious here except Elendil. But I will not guess again till it feels right.
The world was fair in Durin's Day
So I'm hearing that considering the White Ship and its journey might be "looking in the right direction."
They sailed from the Grey Havens, towards Valinor, Cirdan made all of these ships, but never returned on any of them as he didn't consider it his destiny (I too am loving digging into the lore a little more). If it is he that is sharing his frame of reference for the history of Middle-Earth, then what did he see next? Maybe as suggested two very unlikely friends, Gimli and Legolas; maybe one fat nassty hobbitses returning to his master.
To make this an offical guess, is the answer "three friends sailing free?"
They sailed from the Grey Havens, towards Valinor, Cirdan made all of these ships, but never returned on any of them as he didn't consider it his destiny (I too am loving digging into the lore a little more). If it is he that is sharing his frame of reference for the history of Middle-Earth, then what did he see next? Maybe as suggested two very unlikely friends, Gimli and Legolas; maybe one fat nassty hobbitses returning to his master.
To make this an offical guess, is the answer "three friends sailing free?"
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Very unclear if you are guessing here Dwarf. But if so, the answer is not Elendil. Nor is it 'three friends saling free". Here is my kind of version of a Drifa-clue.
If this was the Beowulf Fanatics Plaza then there would not be two ships but only three. The first, which brought the king to Middle-earth, and the third, which sails in the opposite direction but in this case bears the body of the king. Tolkien concluded that the first of these two ships was in fact a memory of very ancient Germanic myth, while the idea of a ship returning the king at his end was an innovation of the Anglo-Saxon poet, who borrowed this ship from the native British tales of Arthur vanishing after the Battle of Camlann.
I doubt that helps much. But I feel better knowing that you all know that the Middle-earth text that will give you the answer that you need appears to me a deliberate re-working of the schema of Beowulf.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Never studied Beowulf, only have a very slim knowledge of it
However, it now seems to me, from your response, that we may be referring to to the passage where Faramir describes what he saw, or thought he saw after Boromir's death. May the next thing seen, be a broken sword upon a fallen warrior's knee?
However, it now seems to me, from your response, that we may be referring to to the passage where Faramir describes what he saw, or thought he saw after Boromir's death. May the next thing seen, be a broken sword upon a fallen warrior's knee?
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Well, the Beowulf clue was not really meant to help at all. It was just me aspiring to the level of unhelpfulness reached by the clues of the Dwarf.Periantar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 16, 2023 3:58 am Never studied Beowulf, only have a very slim knowledge of it
However, it now seems to me, from your response, that we may be referring to to the passage where Faramir describes what he saw, or thought he saw after Boromir's death. May the next thing seen, be a broken sword upon a fallen warrior's knee?
As to Faramir and the broken sword: no.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
DAH!!!
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Okay how about this.
What was seen next was the dream/ vision that Frodo heard/saw in Tom's house?
What was seen next was the dream/ vision that Frodo heard/saw in Tom's house?
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Elendil was not the right answer. But ships and Elendil is the right direction. But Elendil is not named explicitly in the passage that gives the answer.
And that is me trying to be helpful.
And that is me trying to be helpful.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
@Chrysophylax Dives the next thing you saw was a ship, not bearing a stone, but a white tree.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
You got to identify the passage in the text. Only way.
Hint: it is not exactly an obscure passage.
Hint: it is not exactly an obscure passage.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Was what was seen next darkness and then a single Eye?
Then there was a pause, and after it many swift scenes followed that Frodo in some way knew to be parts of a great history in which he had become involved. The mist cleared and he saw a sight which he had never seen before but knew at once: the Sea. Darkness fell. The sea rose and raged in a great storm. Then he saw against the Sun, sinking blood-red into a wrack of clouds, the black outline of a tall ship with torn sails riding up out of the West. Then a wide river flowing through a populous city. Then a white fortress with seven towers. And then again a ship with black sails, but now it was morning again, and the water rippled with light, and a banner bearing the emblem of a white tree shone in the sun. A smoke as of fire and battle arose, and again the sun went down in a burning red that faded into a grey mist; and into the mist a small ship passed away, twinkling with lights. It vanished, and Frodo sighed and prepared to draw away.
But suddenly the Mirror went altogether dark, as dark as if a hole had opened in the world of sight, and Frodo looked into emptiness. In the black abyss there appeared a single Eye that slowly grew. until it filled nearly all the Mirror. So terrible was it that Frodo stood rooted, unable to cry out or to withdraw his gaze. The Eye
“Lord Of The Rings - Part 1 - Fellowship Of The Rings” By J R R Tolkien 264
was rimmed with fire, but was itself glazed, yellow as a cat's, watchful and intent, and the black slit of its pupil opened on a pit, a window into nothing
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 4:15 am You got to identify the passage in the text. Only way.
Hint: it is not exactly an obscure passage.
Had a reading weekend, eh Dwarf?
I am not sure one sees the darkness, possibly it is more an absence of seeing. The answer that I was looking for was indeed the Eye.
(And there in that passage, or so it seems to me, the underlying 'geography' of The Lord of the Rings is drawn out for us.)
You now have two riddle threads at your command. I have been looking at the sadness and drops on the lowland, and your 'hint' has sent me off to eagles and what have you. But we may require another of your gentle Dwarf hints...
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Thanks, Dragon! If anyone wants to post a riddle, please be my guest.
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Well done @Drifa and @Chrysophylax Dives you had me chasing my own tail there for a while, which with a hobbit, is no mean feat, usually we just can't be bothered.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Well, I thought and hoped that you were going to get it, Periantar. But one cannot stop a force of nature. Given @Drifa's post above - any chance of another of your riddles?
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Give me a day or two
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
A spirit that burns with desire
A symbol of great meaning
A beginning of many things from
An ending of just one
The first,
Master of much, possessor of none
Meehhhhhhhhhh, this might be too easy, I don't know. Anyhow, there it is.
A symbol of great meaning
A beginning of many things from
An ending of just one
The first,
Master of much, possessor of none
Meehhhhhhhhhh, this might be too easy, I don't know. Anyhow, there it is.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Oooo. No idea, but it is good to have a change of flavour of riddle. Hope the Dward does not get it too quickly.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Tom Bombadil?
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
@Chrysophylax Dives
That's more like it. I was thinking there for a minute that I wouldn't get even so much as a guess from you. Ol' Tommy Bombadillo most definitely a master of much, and I dare say he would not consider himself to possess any of it, (perhaps with the exception of Goldberry, and she likewise of him, I'm sure).
That being said...
Nope
That's more like it. I was thinking there for a minute that I wouldn't get even so much as a guess from you. Ol' Tommy Bombadillo most definitely a master of much, and I dare say he would not consider himself to possess any of it, (perhaps with the exception of Goldberry, and she likewise of him, I'm sure).
That being said...
Nope
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
How much pleasure did you get writing that, eh?
I've learned to be patient when I put up a riddle. It always takes people a while to step out of the old one and into the new. Then you get a nibble, but still gotta be patient. :)
Yeah, did not really make sense it was Tom, not with all the obscure first bits...
I've learned to be patient when I put up a riddle. It always takes people a while to step out of the old one and into the new. Then you get a nibble, but still gotta be patient. :)
Yeah, did not really make sense it was Tom, not with all the obscure first bits...
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
@Drifa hoi!
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Saruman?
Morgoth?
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
@Chrysophylax Dives @Arnyn
Morgoth - no, though I do like the connection with "spirit that burns"
Saruman - also a "no" though of course, we all know very well what his symbol was, and he certainly convinced himself that he was the master of many
This is definitely a "who" so thus far we are on the right track picking out individuals.
Morgoth - no, though I do like the connection with "spirit that burns"
Saruman - also a "no" though of course, we all know very well what his symbol was, and he certainly convinced himself that he was the master of many
This is definitely a "who" so thus far we are on the right track picking out individuals.
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
What about Fëanor, Spirit of Fire?
The world was fair in Durin's Day
The venerable dwarf, @Drifa, has of course smashed it out of the park - it was after all a little too easy...
I would like to invite Drifa to explain the riddle
I would like to invite Drifa to explain the riddle
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
Thank you, young, hobbit! I will do that as soon as I get home from the mines. I spent too much time in Scary and have run out of time. Have a good day!
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Upon reading the first line of the riddle, my first thought was Fëanor. I believe the Silmarils to be a symbol of significant meaning. The third and fourth lines of the riddle pertain to all the events from the beginning to the end of the history of the Silmarils. Fëanor was the greatest of the Noldor, leader in a rebellion, deviser of the Fëanorian script, and maker of the Silmarils. But in the end, he died, his deeds both renowned and grievous, possessor of none: - one Silmaril remains visible in the world, bound to Eärendil's brow as he sails the heavens...
A spirit that burns with desire
A symbol of great meaning
A beginning of many things from
An ending of just one
The first,
Master of much, possessor of none
A spirit that burns with desire
A symbol of great meaning
A beginning of many things from
An ending of just one
The first,
Master of much, possessor of none
The world was fair in Durin's Day
well done Drifa, my own break down...
A spirit that burns with desire - Feanor was known to have a fiery spirit, also, his body was consumed with flame when he died
A symbol of great meaning - The creator of the Tengwar, or the Feanorian script - symbols which gave meaning to words
A beginning of many things from -
An ending of just one - pretty much everything in the Silmarillion came from the Kinslaying, which was the ending of peace in Valinor
The first, - the first posessor of the Silmarils
Master of much, possessor of none - As king, was master of his peeps, yet all he wanted was what he could not possess
A spirit that burns with desire - Feanor was known to have a fiery spirit, also, his body was consumed with flame when he died
A symbol of great meaning - The creator of the Tengwar, or the Feanorian script - symbols which gave meaning to words
A beginning of many things from -
An ending of just one - pretty much everything in the Silmarillion came from the Kinslaying, which was the ending of peace in Valinor
The first, - the first posessor of the Silmarils
Master of much, possessor of none - As king, was master of his peeps, yet all he wanted was what he could not possess
Periantar:
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
I am a multi facited hobbit, for I am a gardener;
a leader, hobbit second regiment of the HDS;
and fireworks meister of TISAPA.
"A symbol of great meaning - The creator of the Tengwar, or the Feanorian script - symbols which gave meaning to words."
That is the line I kick myself on.
As for our riddles, we appear to be in the doldrums. Maybe we are all riddled out. It might help if we could just convict the Dwarf in the Lore trial and so all move on. Also, I now worry that the court case might have given the Riddles of the plaza a bad name.
Actually, I think we just need to wait for the Dwarf to finish off with the word-sleuth stuff and then get perilously bored once again.
That is the line I kick myself on.
As for our riddles, we appear to be in the doldrums. Maybe we are all riddled out. It might help if we could just convict the Dwarf in the Lore trial and so all move on. Also, I now worry that the court case might have given the Riddles of the plaza a bad name.
Actually, I think we just need to wait for the Dwarf to finish off with the word-sleuth stuff and then get perilously bored once again.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
"And the Grinch, with his Grinch-feet ice cold in the snow, stood puzzling and puzzling, how could it be so? It came without ribbons. It came without tags. It came without packages, boxes or bags. And he puzzled and puzzled 'till his puzzler was sore. Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before. What if Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store. What if Christmas, perhaps, means a little bit more."
Middle-earth Related
Blue, grey, silver, white, and black
All mixed into a magical sack
Shake it up, shake it down
shake it round n' round
Then, place it on the ground
Stand back, hold your breath
From top to bottom, all dressed
What comes out will surely impress
Especially to one whose eyes unsuspect
Middle-earth Related
Blue, grey, silver, white, and black
All mixed into a magical sack
Shake it up, shake it down
shake it round n' round
Then, place it on the ground
Stand back, hold your breath
From top to bottom, all dressed
What comes out will surely impress
Especially to one whose eyes unsuspect
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Wow!
Dwarf on a roll.
Dwarf on a roll.
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
It was my turn. No guess? Tsk tsk...
The world was fair in Durin's Day
That was a guess, I thought the answer was 'Dwarf on a roll'.
How about, following my Lore post, 13 Dwarves caught by 3 Trolls?
How about, following my Lore post, 13 Dwarves caught by 3 Trolls?
Eat earth. Dig deep. Drink water.
Interesting, 'Dwarf on a roll'. Nope, not 13 Dwarves caught by 3 Trolls.
The world was fair in Durin's Day
Oh, my my, I forgot to ask, Who am I? way back before Santa came, * grin*. I hope this helps.
The world was fair in Durin's Day