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Newborn of Lothlorien
Points: 556 
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:42 pm
@Narv Since when is anti-Catholic an offence or an accusation? I thought it was simply a position, like being anti-communist or anti-fascist. Is anti-communist or anti-fascist not ok either? I'm both, so should I leave? Or what?

Éowyn
Éowyn
Points: 5 580 
Posts: 2987
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:34 pm
Silky Gooseness wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 10:43 am Complaints may be made directly to @Narv, the site owner or to the admin email or via the report post box, or the reporting form as clearly signposted in our General Rules.
Read, please.
Arnyn ~ Honor & Valor
Kaylin ~ Joy & Strength

Éowyn
Éowyn
Points: 5 580 
Posts: 2987
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:34 pm
Also moved this to admin messages.
Arnyn ~ Honor & Valor
Kaylin ~ Joy & Strength

Chef
Points: 212 
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:08 am
Hi @Ephtariat, I'm away from home visiting family for the next couple days so I'm a little time-limited. I also want to get a better handle on the context here so that will take me a little time as well. If there is anything very urgent or if you'd like to provide more context or specifics around your complaint please send me an email at narv [at] lotrfanaticsplaza [dot] com (my email from the Contact Us page: app.php/contact-us). Otherwise I'll reply here when I'm ready.

Chef
Points: 212 
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:08 am
Thanks for waiting @Ephtariat - I didn't see anything come in to the email, so I'll give my thoughts here based on what's available. For context, I read through these:

viewtopic.php?p=69180
viewtopic.php?p=69197

Plus the warnings added on your profile, plus the ongoing admin discussions around this. If there is additional context I'm missing please let me know.

Your complaint is kind of just four questions, so I guess I'll just try answering them and add some general thoughts along the way. If there is a deeper complaint motivating this post, please elaborate here (I'll unlock this thread) or again feel free to use the email I posted.

1) Since when is anti-Catholic an offence or an accusation? I thought it was simply a position, like being anti-communist or anti-fascist.

You'd need to ask someone smarter than me to get a good answer as to the history/validity of distinctions between religious identity and political ideology. But here's a way to put it in terms of the rules of the website, which I'm more familiar with. Rule #5 states "The Plaza is open to and accepting of persons of all [...] religions". From that you can gather that on this website, "anti-Catholic" is not a great thing to be, particularly for an admin. Claiming that someone is something that is bad would fit the bill for an "accusation" and might well fit the bill for "personal attack" - such things are often open to interpretation, which I'll get into more at the end.

2) Is anti-communist or anti-fascist not ok either?

See above for why anti-[insert religion] stuff is a little different. But I'd add that if you put a label on another member in order to make a point (or to dismiss their own points), when they have professed no such opinions, then you might end up back in the soup vis a vis disrespect and personal attacks - Rule #1 stuff.

3) I'm both, so should I leave?

No, you should not feel any need to leave because you are anti-communist or anti-fascist.

4) Or what?

Or leave, if you aren't having fun anymore. Or stay, and do your best to get along with the handful of other oddballs that have stuck around on this little anachronism that rest of the internet has long forgot, just like they'll have to do their best to get along with you. Or stay, and keep getting angry and fighting, but eventually there's a decent chance you'll get banned. Which is OK too -- some of the best members this site has ever had (across its various incarnations) got banned. It's just kinda the cost of doing business if your business involves getting into a lot of fights with people.


Some more thoughts of a general nature. First, Rule 1 is pretty broad - it's the "don't be an ass" rule. And different admins, different teams of admins, etc, will interpret and enforce it differently. That's just the nature of a tiny volunteer-run site, and it's part of why we have these elections every 6 months - if the members think the admins are getting too overbearing, or underbearing, they can get new ones (or run themselves).

Second, I can understand why you're feeling hard done by here though. Despite me not agreeing with much of your complaint, I also don't believe you were trying to be particularly malicious in your original remarks to Rivvy. And there is definitely additional scrutiny warranted when admins take action in response to something said to them personally rather than to other members, since personal grudges and grievances are a risk in those cases (and I suspect such grudges already exist, in both directions - again, the joys of a website with an active membership you could fit into a few minivans).

What I look for in the case of a complaint like this, and in general when checking how things are going, is whether admin decisions are justifiable per the site rules (regardless of whether they align exactly with what I personally would have done) and whether there was consensus among the team about whatever actions are taken (rather than one admin acting unilaterally). I'm satisfied that the warning you were given passed those measures, so it'll stand. I don't mind using this thread as a chance for you to take issue with anything I said above, though.

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