Re: Goldberry
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:04 pm
Hello Aiks
I’m glad you didn’t find it boring. I’m happy you found:
The Reason behind the Many Semblances of Goldberry?
To make headway what’s needed now is to switch attention to story germination and to recognize the phenomenon of oral drift. Then to reinforce the Washerwoman/Banshee connection, as no others have done, contemplate imagery of Goldberry outdoors on her washing day. Once brooded over, the Professor’s footsteps will likely have been traced which should be helpful – if not enlightening!
To understand Tolkien’s thinking on how legends and myths historically arose and how orally they had migrated and diffused across Europe, we should particularly heed remarks in his On Fairy-stories paper. By stripping away the complex arguments surrounding competing ‘origin’ theories, we gain a valuable glimpse of how the Professor’s mind whirred. Meticulously charted was his train of thought when it came to the Norse god: Thórr.
Proffered up was how the legend of Thórr might have arisen based on:
“… stories about an irascible, not very clever, redbeard farmer, of a strength beyond common measure, a person (in all but mere stature) very like the Northern farmers, the bœndr by whom Thórr was chiefly beloved?” – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
In broad summary, Tolkien asks how might the husbandman have been viewed by a passer-by when out in the fields at a time lightning flashed and thunder sounded? Could it be:
“… that the farmer popped up in the very moment when Thunder got a voice and face; …”? – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
Or perhaps the tale had simply become embellished when:
“… there was a distant growl of thunder in the hills every time a story-teller heard a farmer in a rage.” – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
Of course the take-away from this conjecture, are scenarios that show us a possible ‘root’ to a myth. Most reasonably, he argued, Thórr simply stemmed from extreme weather phenomena occurring in the presence of an extraordinarily strong and vocal farmer with the scene glimpsed or heard by outsiders. Such accounts, one can imagine, spread across the population from mouth-to-mouth becoming exaggerated along the way.
Tolkien’s logic trail is highly revealing. And we can use it to think along the same lines for Goldberry. Because we need to put ourselves in the Professors’ shoes as best as we can; it’s our best chance for success. Besides the comparison is good – because both ‘Fairy Stories’ lecture material and Goldberry’s ontological evolution in The Lord of the Rings were being sorted out at much the same time*. Of course, once again, to maximize benefits – we will need to attune into imagery and Nature. Maybe not featuring Asgardian “thunder in the hills” – but instead much mellower ‘singing in the hills!!!
… to be continued
* According to Letter #33 (from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981), by the end of August 1938 Tolkien had finished drafting all three chapters involving Goldberry. By the beginning of December 1938 per Letter #35 (from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981) chapters were revised to the point (as Christopher Tolkien reports in The Return of the Shadow) that some of the story reached its final form. Yet it is clear that by the ‘third phase’ of writing (which appears to have been progressing in December 1938) our chapters of interest still differed considerably from the final text. In any case, The Lord of the Rings had to be shelved after Christmas 1938 for a while to focus on the ‘Andrew Lang Lecture’. It was delivered on 8 March 1939. We now know much preparation was also done in the year before its delivery. Tolkien had almost three months of 1938 available at the point of acceptance:
“Andrew Bennett, Secretary of the University Court at the University of St Andrews, writes to Tolkien, inviting him to deliver an Andrew Lang Lecture (i.e. On Fairy-Stories). … Tolkien will quickly send a positive reply.” – The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, 8 October 1938, C. Scull & W. Hammond, Addenda & Corrigenda
The overlap for developing the lecture paper’s content and the firming-up of Goldberry’s character for what became The Fellowship of the Ring is thus hardly deniable.
I’m glad you didn’t find it boring. I’m happy you found:
I now want to link all that evidence to the textual portrayal of Goldberry in The Fellowship of the Ring. Just as importantly, I also want to connect it to his On Fairy-stories paper which will give added oomph. But it’s going to take a few posts!a solid base of convincing that Goldberry is based on similar older legends and myths.
The Reason behind the Many Semblances of Goldberry?
To make headway what’s needed now is to switch attention to story germination and to recognize the phenomenon of oral drift. Then to reinforce the Washerwoman/Banshee connection, as no others have done, contemplate imagery of Goldberry outdoors on her washing day. Once brooded over, the Professor’s footsteps will likely have been traced which should be helpful – if not enlightening!
To understand Tolkien’s thinking on how legends and myths historically arose and how orally they had migrated and diffused across Europe, we should particularly heed remarks in his On Fairy-stories paper. By stripping away the complex arguments surrounding competing ‘origin’ theories, we gain a valuable glimpse of how the Professor’s mind whirred. Meticulously charted was his train of thought when it came to the Norse god: Thórr.
Proffered up was how the legend of Thórr might have arisen based on:
“… stories about an irascible, not very clever, redbeard farmer, of a strength beyond common measure, a person (in all but mere stature) very like the Northern farmers, the bœndr by whom Thórr was chiefly beloved?” – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
In broad summary, Tolkien asks how might the husbandman have been viewed by a passer-by when out in the fields at a time lightning flashed and thunder sounded? Could it be:
“… that the farmer popped up in the very moment when Thunder got a voice and face; …”? – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
Or perhaps the tale had simply become embellished when:
“… there was a distant growl of thunder in the hills every time a story-teller heard a farmer in a rage.” – The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 124, HarperCollins, 1983
Of course the take-away from this conjecture, are scenarios that show us a possible ‘root’ to a myth. Most reasonably, he argued, Thórr simply stemmed from extreme weather phenomena occurring in the presence of an extraordinarily strong and vocal farmer with the scene glimpsed or heard by outsiders. Such accounts, one can imagine, spread across the population from mouth-to-mouth becoming exaggerated along the way.

‘Thor’, The Rhinegold and the Valkyrie, 1910 – illustrated by Arthur Rackham
Tolkien’s logic trail is highly revealing. And we can use it to think along the same lines for Goldberry. Because we need to put ourselves in the Professors’ shoes as best as we can; it’s our best chance for success. Besides the comparison is good – because both ‘Fairy Stories’ lecture material and Goldberry’s ontological evolution in The Lord of the Rings were being sorted out at much the same time*. Of course, once again, to maximize benefits – we will need to attune into imagery and Nature. Maybe not featuring Asgardian “thunder in the hills” – but instead much mellower ‘singing in the hills!!!
… to be continued
* According to Letter #33 (from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981), by the end of August 1938 Tolkien had finished drafting all three chapters involving Goldberry. By the beginning of December 1938 per Letter #35 (from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981) chapters were revised to the point (as Christopher Tolkien reports in The Return of the Shadow) that some of the story reached its final form. Yet it is clear that by the ‘third phase’ of writing (which appears to have been progressing in December 1938) our chapters of interest still differed considerably from the final text. In any case, The Lord of the Rings had to be shelved after Christmas 1938 for a while to focus on the ‘Andrew Lang Lecture’. It was delivered on 8 March 1939. We now know much preparation was also done in the year before its delivery. Tolkien had almost three months of 1938 available at the point of acceptance:
“Andrew Bennett, Secretary of the University Court at the University of St Andrews, writes to Tolkien, inviting him to deliver an Andrew Lang Lecture (i.e. On Fairy-Stories). … Tolkien will quickly send a positive reply.” – The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, 8 October 1938, C. Scull & W. Hammond, Addenda & Corrigenda
The overlap for developing the lecture paper’s content and the firming-up of Goldberry’s character for what became The Fellowship of the Ring is thus hardly deniable.




























