Lord of the Rings Fanatics Plaza

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:02 am Edit: because i could not but use the proper name, i felt uncomfortable and deleted the story. i'll say though, on thinking on it from the perspective of the parents, this daughter was the last - and apparently final - child of nine. Give that one and then both parents with the family name had obviously been thinking on the double-name for a long time, i do find it hard to begrudge them the given name of their daughter, though they did her no kind deed i think (shades of a Johny Cash song).

Drifa wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:15 am

Middle-earth Related

It started with a positive
outcome and an unlockable lock.
I was the first of the first to hatch,
then there was one other;
a symbolic red patch.
Long it lasted till finally, alas, I was
the last of the last.
Who am I?

Drifa wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:47 am

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:02 am Edit: because i could not but use the proper name, i felt uncomfortable and deleted the story. i'll say though, on thinking on it from the perspective of the parents, this daughter was the last - and apparently final - child of nine. Give that one and then both parents with the family name had obviously been thinking on the double-name for a long time, i do find it hard to begrudge them the given name of their daughter, though they did her no kind deed i think (shades of a Johny Cash song).

The hint is in what Chrysophylax wrote not in a Cash song per se, just shades of a Johny Cash song as Chrysophlax stated.

Eldy Dunami wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:36 am I'm wondering if the "unlockable lock" refers to a lock of hair. If so, that opens up a lot of possibilities, since several members of the House of Finwë had names containing the element(s) Quenya findë and/or Sindarin fin, both referring to a lock or tress of hair.

Anyway, I'm not at all confident in this guess, but I should probably make one while posting in this thread. So: is the answer Fingolfin, who at the time of his death believed the Noldor in Beleriand to have been ruined and thus, perhaps, himself to be the last of their princes.

Drifa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:35 pm No, Fëanor, biologically, was an only child.

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:05 am so here is my thinking at the moment. based on the 'clues' in my own words, we are looking at one person who has two names.

Eldy Dunami wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:12 pm I think the Fëanor thing means the answer is someone with at least one sibling, and ... I'm leaning towards the solution being a Dwarf, Man, or Hobbit

Drifa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:47 pm No correct answers. A name can be a first, middle or last name.

Drifa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:14 pm What I meant by two names is that it could be two first, two middle or two last names. My apologies for any confusion.

Eldy Dunami wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:16 pm Is it Pearl Took? A Hobbit with a surname, she was an eldest sibling; the secondborn in her family was named Pimpernel, a genus of flowers, the most famous species of which is red; and who purportedly caused the "accidental" death of Lalia the Great, head of the Took family, allowing her father to accede to the family headship—for which she was quietly rewarded, indicating the death was considered a positive outcome by some. (Not sure she fits the other clues, though. )

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:40 amEldy, I keep saying 'gosh' when i read your answers on this thread - and keep embarrassing myself by posting 'you must be right' and then discovering - nay. But even here when i already know this is not the correct answer, the nice reasoning and background erudition are truly astonishing! It is a privilege to read you on any thread, O loremistress emerita of the plaza.

Thank you, Chrys, you are truly too kind. Also—unfortunate timing given the glowing compliment—but I just realized I misspoke in my previous post. The immediate beneficiary of Pearl's action was an older cousin, Ferumbras Took, who was in turn succeeded as Thain and head of the family by Pearl's (and Pippin's) father, Paladin, in time for Paladin to hold those positions during the main events of LOTR.

I wondered briefly if the Old Took might be the answer, but he had no recorded siblings. His eldest child, Isengrim (later Thain Isengrim III), did not even come close to outliving all his younger siblings, so I doubt he's the answer either. Narrowing in specifically to the Old Tooks' three famous daughters, the eldest of them (Belladonna) was also the first to die, so cross her off the list. Looking over the other Hobbit family trees in Appendix D, there are at least two further eldest children with red-theme-named younger siblings—Rudigar Bolger, elder brother of Ruby, and Hugo Boffin, elder brother of Primrose (perhaps a stretch)—but in both cases the younger siblings don't have death dates, so we can't say if the eldest outlived them. Also, neither Rudigar nor Hugo have extra names.

Perhaps I'm getting too hung up on the death date angle, so I'll take a shot in the dark and guess Elanor the Fair, daughter of Samwise Gamgee. Eldest child; had a younger sister named Rose; her father used the pet name Elanorellë in the unpublished Epilogue to LOTR; she had (locks of) blonde hair, unusually for a Hobbit; and was born just a few months after the miraculously splendid year of S.R. 1420. There'd be a stronger case if she was born in 1420, but she shares the distinctive blonde hair of the 1420 babies, and her birth could still be called one of the positive outcomes of the free peoples' victory in the War of the Ring. No idea if Elanor outlived her siblings, but she was the last mortal person to see Sam before he sailed over the sea.

Eldy Dunami wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:00 am Elanor the Fair, daughter of Samwise Gamgee. Eldest child; had a younger sister named Rose; her father used the pet name Elanorellë in the unpublished Epilogue to LOTR; she had (locks of) blonde hair, unusually for a Hobbit; and was born just a few months after the miraculously splendid year of S.R. 1420. There'd be a stronger case if she was born in 1420, but she shares the distinctive blonde hair of the 1420 babies, and her birth could still be called one of the positive outcomes of the free peoples' victory in the War of the Ring. No idea if Elanor outlived her siblings, but she was the last mortal person to see Sam before he sailed over the sea.

And also you have Rose, and Elanor; and Frodo-lad will come, and Rosie-lass, and Merry, and Goldilocks, and Pippin; and perhaps more that I cannot see.

Drifa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:55 am No correct answer so far. Here are some clues.

Not a creature.

Drifa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:35 pm No, Fëanor, biologically, was an only child.

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Sat Apr 02, 2022 7:05 am so here is my thinking at the moment. based on the 'clues' in my own words, we are looking at one person who has two names.

Do not search for the answer in the Years of the Trees, First Age or Second Age.

Try again.

Chrysophylax Dives wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 4:53 am

Drifa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:14 pm What is meant by two names is that it could be two first, two middle or two last names. My apologies for any confusion.

You have dropped buckets of confusion on our heads for days and days and days!