Marketplace OOC

[Leiryn Sulelinde]

Arnyn, if I can remember how to RP after 12+ years yup :smiley8:

[Liläth]

@Veowyn Hey, just curious if anyone has started a smithy shop yet? So for weapons, armor or anything to do with craftsman items. bows, arrows, mail, swords, daggers, tunics, etc. I have a character in mind who's profession is that, be much easier if I have them based here considering this is where they were born. Let me know if this is ok and i'll write up a post with the character asap.

[Veowyn]

Not yet @Liläth, you are welcome to do so

[Liläth]

@Veowyn Thank you :) I'll write it up tomorrow when I wake up.

[Ercassie]

So, I've started with my character and a named carpentry establishment, @Veowyn . Hopefully the concept is agreeable, since I never did make it all the way to rank up to 'Owner' previously. Neither though do I think I could realistically take someone from complete novice in the trade to a shop owner in four posts ! So my Addhor character is currently a Novice not so much in the craft, but more in how to make a career now out of the skills he's so far obtained. And there shall come more skills to master I am sure, as he goes along. My NPC, Sadar, ('from the guild') is acting in the capacity of Mentor/master/trainer/etc in the meantime.

If this doesn't suit your vision for the thread-system, I can always change it up. ;) Thanks

[Veowyn]

@Ercassie it looks great! I'll update the OP soon :)

@Durien I owe you a post :) and it is up for you

[Eldrith]

:twisted: @Arnyn ... I have no clue what you are talking about of course! Not at all. Now why is there no Halo emoji to show off my utter innocence.

PS. Muhahaha looking forward to it.

[Arnyn]

There's an innocent look about you in real life maybe, as well as to that little horsey that's your icon... but those who know you, know better, Eldrith

[Turin Ringhûn]

I’ve been really busy with work this week and have not had much time to search the archives. unfortunately, if I were to jump right back into the Miller, as of right now, I’d be starting from scratch. If I remember right, I had a floor plan, prices and such all laid out already. Can someone check to see if they can find it? What makes it worse, I don’t remember exactly when I was doing the Miller on the old plaza.

[Veowyn]

@Turin Ringhûn im all for starting over, if that's what you want to do. Unfortunately, I personally have had little luck in the way back machine, can't get past the forum front page :/ I don't know when you were Miller either, I don't recall it being during my time as master of trade. I could be wrong though

[Burnt Toast]

Turin, I'll do some digging and see if I can find your materials. I've had luck at various points with the way back machine. I'll post here if I find anything.

[Turin Ringhûn]

Thanks Toasty

[Burnt Toast]

Update on the way back machine-- I went through it for an hour or two, and in almost all of it, the Marketplace just didn't load/exist. The only one I was able to load so far was an iteration from March of 2010, but I didn't find your name anywhere in the thread, unfortunately.

Is that way too late in era? Do you have any idea who made the thread you worked in, or any inkling of year, even a year it definitely would not be in?

I'll do some more searching, but I fear it may be lost to the void.

[Turin Ringhûn]

According to Findy’s post on page 1, I was on her list around 2008. But I agree, I fear my previous work has been lost to the void.

[Finduilas Faelivrin]

I just need to say something: "Bloodbath and Beyond" @Liläth I love it! Will you be sending out 20% off coupons as well?

[Liläth]

@Finduilas Faelivrin sure, ill send it via written scroll. Expect a dove with said offer soon.

[Burnt Toast]

@Turin Ringhûn Disappointing :(. Well, I'll take another dig through the 2007/2008 era, but I was definitely having trouble getting anything to load.

[Tenharien]

I just need to say something: "Bloodbath and Beyond" @Liläth I love it! Will you be sending out 20% off coupons as well?

It's absolutely brilliant. MT was the first post I went to today when i woke up and I had to chuckle. ^^ Also, I for one would one would love some coupons, seeing how much time I'll be spending there lol.

[Turin Ringhûn]

@Mor Toast , I took a look all through 2008 in the wayback machine nothing would load for the marketplace. I honestly don't remember much from the plaza at the time because IRL I was in the middle east. And pretty much the entire first half of 2007 I was in military training. I've started to resign myself I'll never see that work again. Off to the drawing board to get the miller shop together.

[Burnt Toast]

Shame. But, it's a good time for new starts, I suppose! Look forward to seeing the shop. :)

[Turin Ringhûn]

@Isolde Alarion, I'm working on putting together the Miller shop info again. Because the bakery would obviously be a common 'customer' so to speak of the mill for whatever grains and flours to be used, do you have a preference for any grains/flours to be delivered/picked up?

I'm wanting to say in the past I had wheat, barley, and rye. I'm thinking I'll add rice and some nut flours as well.
I had various flour consistencies: coarse, fine, and extra fine. As a note, the volume of a bread loaf decreases as the grain is ground finer. I'll have whole grain, and whole wheat flours (the difference is how it's ground). I'll also have meal. Meal is essentially taking the kernel and grinding it down to almost the consistency of a flour, thus more coarse.

For example,
The top is different Rye flours (left to right): white , light, medium, wholegrain, dark
The bottom is Rye Meal (left to right): rye kernels, coarse, medium, fine

I'm thinking for the flour, the coarse would probably be a bit finer than fine meal. Fine would be like what get in the grocery store. Extra fine, I'm thinking something like powdered sugar.

[Isolde Alarion]

@Turin Ringhûn I think a variety would be nice. Nell does bake several different things and everyone has different taste. I love all the information too. :)

[Winddancer]

@Turin Ringhûn omg lol, that totally reminds me of all the research I did for weaving when I was doing my training back then! I love that we get so into our roles <3

[Ercassie]

@Veowyn Thankyou for updating my shop name in the marketplace Opening Post, although I seem to be written up in the list there twice ?

It is no doubt my fault with the original two apprenticeships enquiry. But can I beg you to work your magic editing please ? Thanks in advance.


EDIT : Looks good now, Veowyn. Thankyou

[Turin Ringhûn]

@Winddancer, but of course. Have to do research so it lends to the verisimilitude of the work.

I’ll have my shop posted probably later today. Coming up with prices right now.

[Winddancer]

Agreed! The amount of time I put into researching for HoH and the marketplace weaving was insane rofl. But it was still fun! Still remember some of the herbs :P

[Eriol]

Hey, y'all. Need a green grocer, by any chance? I'm having my NPC Beren in Gondor and lives in Lossarnach. He supplies carpenters with lebethron. His parents do some mixed farming (fruits, vegetables, and livestock) in the Pelennor Fields Fields and his wife is a horse rancher. Could I have any of those characters be of some use in the Market?

Issy, is it okay if one of Beren's daughters (one of Mourgan's half-sisters) learns baking from Nell ?

[Winddancer]

I wouldnt mind doing a grocer, as the clay pipe maker kind of got used in a different story and I am having trouble figuring out how to make it a store :P Grocer is easier! Though if someone else is really dying to be a grocer, by all means take it :)
@Aigronding Mordagnir @Veowyn

[Ercassie]

Happy to take some lebethron supplies off you @Aigronding Mordagnir ;)

[Veowyn]

We could use a grocer for sure. @Winddancer character sells what Beren (Aigronding Mordagnir) brings in? I also have the minrimmon boys (Vandani's sons) running their father's dairy, so i have milk to supply a grocer too!

also, Durien, Veowyn is an elf

[Turin Ringhûn]

Oh, I saw this post in the Shire by @Rior Laegiel. It had a currency being used by the old plaza. I wanted to share it here as figured I'd use it for the Miller shop.

10 copper = 1 silver
10 silver = 1 electrum
10 electrum = 1 gold
1000 copper = 100 silver = 10 electrum = 1 gold

[Isolde Alarion]

I think it's a great idea Bear, Nell could use the company. I also think a grocer is a great addition to the Market..gonna need some fruits for those danishes.
Veo, I'll be hitting up those dairy boys too. :smiley8:
*Nell walks through in a hurry muttering about a grocery list and flour and milk.* So much to do...
@Aigronding Mordagnir
@Veowyn

[Eriol]

Thanks, Windy, I'll help you!

I'm excited to write Beren interacting with Addhor, finally, Cassie, and thanks for the invite here!

Veowyn, that's a great idea, Beren's parents supplying Windy's characters with their produce like their son selling (and bringing) Addhor his lebethron. Let's do that!
Beren's daughter, Suelen, will be happy to see Vandani's boys.

Issy, Suelen loves Nella and she'll be easy to work with. If you need her to run errands like taking coin from Nella to get ingredients, that can happen to. And eating sugar cookies on break.

[Veowyn]

For now, let's just keep the Minrimmon boys to mentions that they are the suppliers. My heart isn't ready to play them without Maldir (who played their dad, Dani's hubby, Malacor) yet.

@Turin Ringhûn , that looks like decent trade off amounts, I'm happy to accept that as the standard, though i don't know what Electrum is

[Rior Laegiel]

@Veowyn @Turin Ringhûn I did't know either so googled it (and to make sure it wasn't a word made up for the
plaza ).

Electrum is a naturally occuring alloy of gold and silver with trace amounts of copper and other metals.

[Eriol]

I understand, Veo .

My Smith/ metallurgist High Elf, Hatholdir, makes electric all the time, Rior :smiley8: ! He also loves red-gold but on the hunt for aurichalcum.

[Winddancer]

Líriel the grocer is open for business, her and her brood :P Feel free to post with your goods @Aigronding Mordagnir :D

[Rior Laegiel]

Aig - Never knew that, seems Hatholdir neglected to tell me. lol.
Never met him IC though so that could explain why.

[Galastel]

Just realised we appear to have no tailor. I used to have a seamstress character back in the day, Myrtle. Shall I revive her? Done some research into fashion history in the past couple of years, so I could make this interesting.
(@Pele Alarion, as I recall you were Myrtle's superior. Do you want to do anything with that? It's been a few years IC, so Myrtle might remember fondly your teaching, while having moved on to working on her own. Remind me, was it your main character, or some other? Also, any chance you have any posts from the time saved offline? I can't recall Myrtle's son's name.)

[Veowyn]

@Galastel Seamstress/Tailor is yours, if you want! Do you want to call it any thing specific?

Any one is allowed to call their shop what ever they would like, just let me know. I will update the OP

[Turin Ringhûn]

I've been putting the finishing touches on my prices. I actually looked up the prices of grain in 1200s and then kind of converted that. I'm going with most people using copper and silver to purchase with, so things aren't too expensive. Unfortunately, I'm on a different computer at the moment so I don't have the prices on hand, but if I remember right, 1 pound of flour would be about 20 copper, or 2 silver.

I'll be selling flour in 1 lb, 5 lbs, and 10 lbs, and meal in 5 lbs, 10 lbs, and by the bushel (amount depends on the type being acquired).

[Pele Alarion]

@Galastel, ah, now that you mention it, I did play a bit. But it definitely wasn't Pele. It has been a long time, so I have forgotten what NPC I used to have there, and don't have any posts saved. Perhaps something could be dug up from 'archives' if you remember when it was approximately. I'm not sure I will return to this, so might as well be that Myrtle could run the shop now with the mistress retired - or something along those lines?

[Liläth]

Hey guys, if anyone is interested I've thrown together this Guesstimate for the Bloodbath and Beyond weapon/Armor prices.

Current Weapon list
(Ore is main material used in these items - Prices range depending on type of ore used or details that are added -)
Dagger - 20sp or 2 electrum
Throwing knives (4 set - 10sp per knife - 40sp - 4 electrum)
Mace - 5gp
Glaive - 10gp
Cutlass - 5gp
Handaxe - 5gp
One bladed axe -5gp
Two bladed axe -10gp
Battle axe (Great axe) -20gp
Shortsword - 5gp
Broadsword -10gp
Longsword - 10gp
Greatsword - 20gp
Hammer - 5gp
Lighthammer -10gp
Warhammer - 20gp

Customization Weapons
(Requiring material other than ore aka wood, hide etc)
(Bronze, iron, steel, copper, silver etc can be used)
Maul - iron or steel hammer - 1gp
Spear - Iron or steel tip - 2gp
Lance - iron or steel tip -2gp
Halberd - Metal pike head -5gp
Pike - iron, metal, steel tip.-5gp
Arrows - silver, iron or steel tip - 10sp
Bow - Iron, silver, bronze or steel grip. -10sp
Shield - They are normally rimmed or decorated in iron unless specified. 20sp

Armor List
Mail - 1gp - short sleeved
Mail - 5gp - long sleeved
Plated Armor, Scaled Armor, Chain Armor sets(10-20gp) - Includes helmet, Greaves, Sabatons, Poleyns, Cruisses, Gauntlets, Vambrace, Pauldron, Breastplate, Rerebrace.
Individual armor pieces - 50sp - 2gp : Helmet, Greaves, Savatons, Poleyns, Cruisses, Gauntlets, Vambrace, Pauldron, Breastplate and Rerebrace.

Ore available - added to price on weighing and amount used.
Steel - 10sp
Grey steel - 20sp
Bronze - 10sp
Mithril - 5gp (Available only on request as it is hard to come by and not that common)
Iron - blended mix - 20sp
Iron - 10sp
Metal - 10sp


Customization of lettering in silver, steel, metal, gold, bronze can be accommodated. Various items can be engraved also. Lockets, jewellery, flasks etc. Anything with a base ore involved can be engraved, detailed or shaped. Wagons, Carts or horses being shoed. Prices vary depending on the detail or man hours involved in the item. Negotiating or Barter the final price is allowed, no prices are fixed, this is just a base estimate.

[Galastel]

@Pele Alarion , nah, I don't remember when it was. 2013-ish? Anyway, not going to take over the old shop. I want to go for something a bit more historically accurate. Ready-to-wear did not appear until after 1812 for men (starting with uniforms, then uniform-like styles became fashionable for civilians), and not until the early 20th century for women.

@Veowyn, Seamstress sews seams and makes alteration, tailor makes both alterations and new garments, dressmaker works solely on new dresses. Myrtle should be a tailor, I believe. (Also, 'seamstress' used to be an euphemism for 'prostitute'. Myrtle being an unmarried woman with a child, I don't think she'd like the double entendre.) There used to be the additional distinction of tailors making men's clothing while dressmakers worked on women's clothing, but I don't think that's useful for the number of people we currently have.
As for shop name, I'd like to call it 'Myrtle's'.

BTW, once there's a tailor, there's need for a mercer/draper/cloth merchant and a haberdasher. Anyone?

[Tenharien]

:smiley10: That is a great list, @Liläth. Really makes me want to start a collection honestly lol. Plus it adds more to the RPs. Great work!

[Galastel]

@Isolde Alarion What's the price of a loaf of bread, the very basic one? I figured that's a reasonable baseline for everything else. (So, for example, Myrtle might value her time at 6 loaf-of-bread equivalents per hour.)

[Isolde Alarion]

@Galastel I figure a simple loaf with no frills would be like a 1 copper and more extravagant items would be obviously more. I need to work on a price list I suppose.

[Galastel]

@Isolde Alarion, 1 copper? That would mean 1lb flour would cost significantly less than 1 copper. I mean, the price of a loaf would have to cover the flour, the other ingredients, the fuel for baking, and your work, which would be considerable as you'd be kneading each loaf by hand. @Túrin, can we get some input on the price of flour? Flour would be more expensive in a walled city, right, since it has to be brought in, and I suppose there are taxes?

[Turin Ringhûn]

@Galastel, when tagging me, make sure it’s not the other Turin. Back in the day, he even jokingly said I stole his name.
But in answer to your question, here are the prices that I have for the flour and meal.
Wheat / Rice
1 Bushel: 120s

Nut
1 Bushel: 96s

Barley
1 Bushel: 100s

Rye
1 Bushel: 112s

Oats
1 Bushel: 64s

Any Meal
10 lbs: 202c
5 lbs: 98c

Any Flour
5 lbs: 103c
1 lb: 22c

How I derived these prices is from actually researching prices of grain back in the 1200s-1300s. I had to convert the currency to the currency used on the plaza, but essentially, I took whatever the price of the bushel of wheat was, made that gold, then converted that price down to the given weights. Because different grains have different bushel weights, I have everything based off the wheat. I don’t have the notes in front of me, but If I remember right, the bushels span 60 lbs down to 35 lbs. I took the 1.2 gold (120 silver) for wheat and converted that to the various bushel sizes. Then paired that down to the 10 lbs, 5 lbs, and 1 lb. the meal is a little less expensive as it doesn’t need to be ground as much. I also made it so if you buy more, you get a discount (eg 22c for 1 pound x 5 is 110, but the price shown above is 103c.)

Hope that helps. @Isolde Alarion

[Galastel]

Of course I tagged the other Turin.
The research you did is very impressive. Out of curiosity, what about the price of white flour, as opposed to whole wheat flour? I mean, I know wheat is the most labour-intensive grain to grow, and the process of sifting it to remove bran and germ in order to get white flour is also labour-intensive, and then you're left with significantly less product. Is there any record for what it would cost? (Doesn't matter if not, just curious.)
I haven't researched prices at all, so this is really interesting to me. (For the tailor's, I researched fashion, fabrics, patterns, techniques, looked into how long it would take a professional to do it by hand. But I admit I haven't even thought about looking at records of prices. I do know tailors were comparatively poor, as opposed to the cloth merchants who were doing very well for themselves. But that's about it.)