1) Yavanna -- the best, mostly because Ducky is a Maia of Yavanna. Also, she causes food to appear, much like my wife who is the cook of my house. I would starve without her. I therefore feel a strong bond to this Vala.
2) Ulmo -- The Vala next most closely associated with ducks, and also not an idiot, since he recognized Melkor as untrustworthy. Also blue is one of my favorite colors (after green, a good Yavanna color)
3) Tulkas -- So you're going by "Morgoth" now nerd? Haha whats up douche bag, it's Tulkas from Valinor. Remember me? Me and the guys used to give you a hard time in song. Sorry you were just an easy target lol. I can see not much has changed. Remember Nessa the girl you had a crush on? Yeah we're married now. I make over 200k a year and bench a thousand pounds. I guess some things never change huh loser? Nice catching up lol. Pathetic..
4) Estë -- Have you SEEN the purple icon she had here on the plaza once upon a time? Easily puts her in the top four for me.
5) Mandos -- The definition of cool is pretty much not caring what anyone thinks, and Mandos gives off major cool vibes.
6) Vana -- Too much like Yavanna to go any lower on this list.
7) Vairë -- Ayyy, classical reference, weaving, married to the doom/fate guy, yeah you get it, it's awesome.
8) Melkor -- Honestly depressing that he's this far up the list, but at least he shows some initiative and verve. The Valar suck honestly.
9) Aule -- Like Melkor, but worse at it.
10) Varda -- Super good looking, I guess? Hardly a personality. She does get some cool name drops in LotR I guess?
11) Nessa -- One two three one two three one two three look, I'm dancing! Yeah I dunno I like watching dancing but I don't really like doing it, so...meh.
12) Irmo -- Bro why are most of my dreams that I remember bad dreams? Why you gotta do that to me? Can't you send me some more good dreams? Like honestly.
13) Manwë -- Can we get a better king? This guy is only fit to be king of doofus island.
14) Oromë -- Take some anger management classes, get off your literal high horse, and come join us at the dinner table in polite company dude.
15) Nienna -- My Eru, I hate Nienna. What a giant crybaby. Literally worse than my infant. Cries before anything is even wrong. Won't shut it. Literally cries me rivers, but I don't want them. Get over it, nobody cares Nienna. Nienna? More like NOenna. Get the fredegar out of here. I'll give you something to cry about...
Make your own rankings below please!
The Valar, Ranked from Best to Worst, with Minimal Reasoning
- Points: 2 032
Istari Steward
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 3:10 pm
Last edited by KingODuckingham on Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Points: 964
Thain of The Mark
Posts: 470
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 12:12 am
1. Yavanna: Yavanna has chaos vibes and argues with *everyone* plus she and Aule are most likely to get divorced out of any of the Valar. What a queen.
2. Melkor: Yes, that's right, he's in the number two slot. Melkor is a firstborn who gets the short end of the stick from his parent. He just wanted to *make stuff*. And Eru reams him out for that, while being totally okay with Aule then turning around and doing the exact same thing. As an oldest child, I stand with Melkor.
3. Ulmo: He's like, perceptive and shoves islands around on the oceans and makes storms. I like this guy.
4. Aule: Chaos husband of my chaos queen. The only reason he's in the number 4 slot instead of number 3 is that he was totally willing to crush the dwarves after making him, and that's not cool.
5. Orome: I appreciate his commitment to riding all over the place in search of the Children of Iluvatar when the other Valar just sort of forgot about them and hung out in their happy place.
6. Varda: I like stars. That's about all I have to say for her.
7. Vana: Off-brand Yavanna.
8. Mandos: The grim reaper's cool. And I like the way Mandos just pronounces dooms on people and says prophetic stuff out of the blue.
9. Este: Naps are good, Este is in charge of naps.
10. Lorien: Has a sweet garden
11. Vaire: Is barely mentioned
12. Nessa: Is barely mentioned
13. Nienna: GET. IT. TOGETHER. YOU ABSOLUTE WET BLANKET.
14. Manwe: You suck, Manwe, learn to be more suspicious of people
15. Tulkas: A literal dudebro who spends all his time shoving that goth kid, Melkor, into a locker. I hate him. I hate him *so* *much*
2. Melkor: Yes, that's right, he's in the number two slot. Melkor is a firstborn who gets the short end of the stick from his parent. He just wanted to *make stuff*. And Eru reams him out for that, while being totally okay with Aule then turning around and doing the exact same thing. As an oldest child, I stand with Melkor.
3. Ulmo: He's like, perceptive and shoves islands around on the oceans and makes storms. I like this guy.
4. Aule: Chaos husband of my chaos queen. The only reason he's in the number 4 slot instead of number 3 is that he was totally willing to crush the dwarves after making him, and that's not cool.
5. Orome: I appreciate his commitment to riding all over the place in search of the Children of Iluvatar when the other Valar just sort of forgot about them and hung out in their happy place.
6. Varda: I like stars. That's about all I have to say for her.
7. Vana: Off-brand Yavanna.
8. Mandos: The grim reaper's cool. And I like the way Mandos just pronounces dooms on people and says prophetic stuff out of the blue.
9. Este: Naps are good, Este is in charge of naps.
10. Lorien: Has a sweet garden
11. Vaire: Is barely mentioned
12. Nessa: Is barely mentioned
13. Nienna: GET. IT. TOGETHER. YOU ABSOLUTE WET BLANKET.
14. Manwe: You suck, Manwe, learn to be more suspicious of people
15. Tulkas: A literal dudebro who spends all his time shoving that goth kid, Melkor, into a locker. I hate him. I hate him *so* *much*
Bealdorhaelend
Proud member of the Eastmark
Lead Healer, Edoras Infirmary
Shopkeeper, Cwep Ciese
- Points: 530
Esquire of The Mark
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 8:16 pm
1. Ulmo - literally the only one who has a good idea most of the time.
2. Aulë - Got away with making his own friggin' sentient race.
3. Yavanna - See above, but gets ranked slightly lower because she had to be provoked
4. Námo (Mandos) - Manages Fate. Only Vala besides Ulmo to try to treat Feanor with respect.
5. Oromë - Actually takes an interest in Middle-Earth besides just making it in the first place.
6. Tulkas - When you need to beat up the embodiement of Evil, who you gonna call?
7. Manwë - EAGLES
8. Varda - STARS
9a. Vána - Prepped Melian to play her role in wrecking Morgoth's plans real good.
9b. Estë - as above
11. Nienna - Kinda lame, but Olorin's real cool and she's credited for much of his wisdom, so she can't be all bad.
12. Irmo (Lórien) - Off-brand Namo, gets some credit for Gandalf too I guess
13. Morgoth (Melkor) - Is the aforementioned embodiment of Evil. GO AWAY! (Notice how I snuck Morgoth into the unlucky #13 rank?)
14. Nessa - Does nothing useful, but dancing is good.
15. Vairë - Who?
2. Aulë - Got away with making his own friggin' sentient race.
3. Yavanna - See above, but gets ranked slightly lower because she had to be provoked
4. Námo (Mandos) - Manages Fate. Only Vala besides Ulmo to try to treat Feanor with respect.
5. Oromë - Actually takes an interest in Middle-Earth besides just making it in the first place.
6. Tulkas - When you need to beat up the embodiement of Evil, who you gonna call?
7. Manwë - EAGLES
8. Varda - STARS
9a. Vána - Prepped Melian to play her role in wrecking Morgoth's plans real good.
9b. Estë - as above
11. Nienna - Kinda lame, but Olorin's real cool and she's credited for much of his wisdom, so she can't be all bad.
12. Irmo (Lórien) - Off-brand Namo, gets some credit for Gandalf too I guess
13. Morgoth (Melkor) - Is the aforementioned embodiment of Evil. GO AWAY! (Notice how I snuck Morgoth into the unlucky #13 rank?)
14. Nessa - Does nothing useful, but dancing is good.
15. Vairë - Who?
May the Horse be with you.
- Points: 799
New Soul
Posts: 762
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 11:26 am
1. Ulmo, Lord of Waters. Solitary, independent, god of the ocean, majestic, powerful, and objectively the wisest of the lot. (Suspicious of Melkor? Of course. Inclined to let the elves live freely in Beleriand? Would have worked out much better. Refuses to abandon the Noldor after the rest of the Valar turn their backs? Seriously, someone just put him in charge already.)
2. Varda Elentári. She made the STARS. They are beautiful, and fiery, and indicative of a great deal of skill. If making something that beautiful is not epic, I don’t know what is. Also, Melkor was most afraid of her, and she was one of the first to reject him. The Elves adored her, and I agree – and Manwë should be counting himself very lucky, because I think she’s much too good for him.
3. Nienna, Lady of Mercy. Apparently this is going to be controversial. I happen to think that endurance, wisdom, and courage are all pretty admirable qualities. Also she is the only one of the Valië who doesn’t get married / doesn’t need a man in her life. And she taught Gandalf/Olorin. (And on a slightly more serious note - the Silmarillion is a tragedy. Grief and sorrow and facing defeat and still fighting on are important. It is so sad and yet so beautiful and the two are connected.)
4. Yavanna Kementári. Trees, forests, protector of all that is good on this green earth … seriously, how would you dislike her? And she knows how to stand up to her husband when necessary.
5. Mandos - prone to epic pronouncements of Doom, including some of the most dramatic passages of the Sil. Also wiser than Manwë.
6. Manwë - because mountains, winds, and eagles are still cool, even if he’s very much not the person I would put in charge of everything.
7. Aulë - craftsman extraordinaire, kind of a genius, also a little dark - makes for a super interesting character, albeit a questionable god. Should maybe listen to his wife more.
8. Oromë - adventurer, rider, loved Middle-earth (good for you, Oromë), hunts the monsters and fell-beasts and still loves the trees … this is a set of values I could get behind.
9. Nessa - needs more of a personality of her own, but what little we get is great. Has being young and free-spirited in her favour. Also, I am a dancer, so I think we’d probably get on.
10. Vána - Yavanna’s younger sister, and I really have nothing bad to say about her … but also not much good? Some of the Valië really get shortchanged on descriptions.
11. Tulkas - I don’t hate him, and I don’t love him either. Useful for taking on Melkor, has very Tyr / Thor vibes.
12. Vairë - the weaver. The idea of weaving tapestries depicting everything that happens in the world is a very Norse one, and one that I feel could have been developed SO MUCH more. Threads of fate and all that. Norns, anyone?
13. Irmo/Lórien - master of dreams and visions; which, again, is the sort of thing that could be developed into a really interesting character. Unfortunately we get very little info about this though …
14. Estë - seems to exist solely as a spouse to Irmo. Which is a shame, because, again, she presumably should have more to her personality than ‘rest is her gift’.
15. Morgoth. Is a) no longer one of the Valar and b) is evil.
2. Varda Elentári. She made the STARS. They are beautiful, and fiery, and indicative of a great deal of skill. If making something that beautiful is not epic, I don’t know what is. Also, Melkor was most afraid of her, and she was one of the first to reject him. The Elves adored her, and I agree – and Manwë should be counting himself very lucky, because I think she’s much too good for him.
3. Nienna, Lady of Mercy. Apparently this is going to be controversial. I happen to think that endurance, wisdom, and courage are all pretty admirable qualities. Also she is the only one of the Valië who doesn’t get married / doesn’t need a man in her life. And she taught Gandalf/Olorin. (And on a slightly more serious note - the Silmarillion is a tragedy. Grief and sorrow and facing defeat and still fighting on are important. It is so sad and yet so beautiful and the two are connected.)
4. Yavanna Kementári. Trees, forests, protector of all that is good on this green earth … seriously, how would you dislike her? And she knows how to stand up to her husband when necessary.
5. Mandos - prone to epic pronouncements of Doom, including some of the most dramatic passages of the Sil. Also wiser than Manwë.
6. Manwë - because mountains, winds, and eagles are still cool, even if he’s very much not the person I would put in charge of everything.
7. Aulë - craftsman extraordinaire, kind of a genius, also a little dark - makes for a super interesting character, albeit a questionable god. Should maybe listen to his wife more.
8. Oromë - adventurer, rider, loved Middle-earth (good for you, Oromë), hunts the monsters and fell-beasts and still loves the trees … this is a set of values I could get behind.
9. Nessa - needs more of a personality of her own, but what little we get is great. Has being young and free-spirited in her favour. Also, I am a dancer, so I think we’d probably get on.
10. Vána - Yavanna’s younger sister, and I really have nothing bad to say about her … but also not much good? Some of the Valië really get shortchanged on descriptions.
11. Tulkas - I don’t hate him, and I don’t love him either. Useful for taking on Melkor, has very Tyr / Thor vibes.
12. Vairë - the weaver. The idea of weaving tapestries depicting everything that happens in the world is a very Norse one, and one that I feel could have been developed SO MUCH more. Threads of fate and all that. Norns, anyone?
13. Irmo/Lórien - master of dreams and visions; which, again, is the sort of thing that could be developed into a really interesting character. Unfortunately we get very little info about this though …
14. Estë - seems to exist solely as a spouse to Irmo. Which is a shame, because, again, she presumably should have more to her personality than ‘rest is her gift’.
15. Morgoth. Is a) no longer one of the Valar and b) is evil.
She/her. Almarëa - Rivendell / Jaena - Lone Lands (T.A.) and Gondor (F.A.) / Layna - Mordor
- Points: 271
Wise Ent
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:54 am
1) Ulmo. Lord of waters. Pragmatist. Probably good in a bar fight. Literal and figurative legend. No time for BS and doesn't dish it out either.
2) Melkor. The incarnation of evil? Sure. But just MAYBE if he'd been given a bit of creative freedom, he wouldn't have pulled a tortured artist routine and knocked lamps over. Has anyone tried giving him a hug? Of course they haven't, because cool kids Manwe and Tulkas said not to.
3) Yavanna. When landscape gardening meets supernatural powers. An example of how to piss of Eru successfully. The Ents were never threatened with oblivion, were they?
4) Varda. She knows Manwe is a dick and she tries to reel him in. We appreciate her. She also made the stars, so the baggins is crafty. I stan her.
5) Este. You're beautiful. You're a healer. You're a model. You probably look like Linda Evangelista.
6) Orome. You ride horses, you protect people, you're a fighter. If ME channeled some more Big Orome Energy, maybe it would be a better place.
7) Aule. Pro, you made the dwarves. Con, you pissed off God. Pro, you do a lot of pro bono smithing work. On balance, pro.
8) Nessa. I have no strong feelings. You're a dancer, but you aren't arrogant with it. Gurl do you.
9) Irmo. Get out of bed and help your brother. He's struggling.
10) Mandos. Dude, you need to hang out with people more. If the only reason you leave your graveyard is to dish out horrific prophecies, you need to question whether your lifestyle is healthy.
11) Manwe. 20/20 vision is not sufficient grounds to declare yourself king. At least you're pretty.
12) Vaire. You are gonna be screwed once Arda has it's industrial revolution. I see redundancy LOOMING in your future.
13) Vana. You're like a high rent Melian with none of the features of Melian. Go hide in a bush.
14) Tulkas. I would have spent so much time flirting with you 10 years ago, you absolute stud. You're boring though. Being good at wrestling isn't the same as having a personality. You are thousands of years old. Get. Your. shire. Together.
15) Nienna. Everybody has emotions. I get that, but it's emotionS PLURAL. Stop crying, you absolute melt.
- Points: 85
Snaga
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 9:10 am
1. Ulmo. The most open minded Vala and maybe even character in the entire Tolkien pantheon. Does not up and dramatically abandon his brethren or the Children when things are rough. Also oceans/seas/water features are neat.
2. Yavanna. I wish I was more skilled as a gardener, so I kind of want to be her, also she has a personality, which is more than can be said for most of the Valar.
3. Melkor. Aside from needing to live up to my minion identity, again, someone with a personality. He eventually grows angry and nihilistic, which is boring, but that's after being thwarted by his father, brothers, and sisters at every turn for decades for wanting to do things that aren't particularly evil at first. And, hey, that's even character development.
4. Aule Same as Melkor, actually has a personality and character development. Not in the direction that I would necessarily want to go, but I am not going to dock too many points for having different values.
5. Este. I love naps.
6. Varda. I'm a space nerd and she's associated with the stars/heavens. She also gets some pretty good owns in and owning is the highest form of expression on the internet.
7. Tulkas. I have fitness aspirations.
8. Mandos. He seems metal as hell. Pronouncing dooms is rad. If he didn't come off so surly he'd rank higher. I might be surly too though if my lame brother was made king over me.
9. Orome. Adventurousness is cool, took bad we don't get to know more about him after he tracks down the elves.
10. Nienna. Nice to have someone who knows how messed up the world truly is, crying is fine, and empathy is cool, but that much crying seems exhausting. I'd rather just nap (see Este, above).
11. Vaire. She should branch out from weaving, do some sewing, knitting, pottery, and she'd rise a lot higher on my list.
12. Irmo. I hate dreaming.
13. Nessa. I'm not much of a dancer and I am kind of traumatized from my time in ballet as a kid.
14. Manwe. BORING. Any of the above would make a better regent of the Valar.
15. Vana. I can't believe this possible to be more boring than Manwe, but here we are. Youth being your defining feature? Give me a break.
2. Yavanna. I wish I was more skilled as a gardener, so I kind of want to be her, also she has a personality, which is more than can be said for most of the Valar.
3. Melkor. Aside from needing to live up to my minion identity, again, someone with a personality. He eventually grows angry and nihilistic, which is boring, but that's after being thwarted by his father, brothers, and sisters at every turn for decades for wanting to do things that aren't particularly evil at first. And, hey, that's even character development.
4. Aule Same as Melkor, actually has a personality and character development. Not in the direction that I would necessarily want to go, but I am not going to dock too many points for having different values.
5. Este. I love naps.
6. Varda. I'm a space nerd and she's associated with the stars/heavens. She also gets some pretty good owns in and owning is the highest form of expression on the internet.
7. Tulkas. I have fitness aspirations.
8. Mandos. He seems metal as hell. Pronouncing dooms is rad. If he didn't come off so surly he'd rank higher. I might be surly too though if my lame brother was made king over me.
9. Orome. Adventurousness is cool, took bad we don't get to know more about him after he tracks down the elves.
10. Nienna. Nice to have someone who knows how messed up the world truly is, crying is fine, and empathy is cool, but that much crying seems exhausting. I'd rather just nap (see Este, above).
11. Vaire. She should branch out from weaving, do some sewing, knitting, pottery, and she'd rise a lot higher on my list.
12. Irmo. I hate dreaming.
13. Nessa. I'm not much of a dancer and I am kind of traumatized from my time in ballet as a kid.
14. Manwe. BORING. Any of the above would make a better regent of the Valar.
15. Vana. I can't believe this possible to be more boring than Manwe, but here we are. Youth being your defining feature? Give me a break.
- Points: 214
Chef
Posts: 680
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:08 am
Not a ranking because I don't have time to reorder the lines. but my impressionistic take on all the valar mentioned.
1) Yavanna -- Miss Luthy! Like a long lost mother figure from my youth, now but dimly remembered but with much fondness. A+
2) Ulmo -- Arlo? The water Valar I guess. Nothing wrong with that.
3) Tulkas -- Cool icon but the background was a little bit yellow for my taste.
4) Estë -- Never heard of this one sorry
5) Mandos -- Is this like.. the Time Valar? I think of them as the Time Valar for some reason. The Halls of Mandos is something I'm sure. Hoth's thing??
6) Vana -- I think maybe I just always thought this was a misspelling of Vala.
7) Vairë -- Bird Valar correct? But not eagle because that was one of the other ones. Birds though?
8) Melkor -- Mo
9) Aule -- The Dwarf Valar. I like dwarves, so props for that
10) Varda -- Blackrose Bugg? If so A+ otherwise A
11) Nessa -- Until this post I thought that was the name of a plaza member, not a Valar
12) Irmo -- You mean Ulmo surely
13) Manwë -- Eagle icon? Bird? Alkthoniel maybe?
14) Oromë -- Protoguy Shiny Horse Icon A+
15) Nienna -- I mean the name quite sounds familiar I will admit
1) Yavanna -- Miss Luthy! Like a long lost mother figure from my youth, now but dimly remembered but with much fondness. A+
2) Ulmo -- Arlo? The water Valar I guess. Nothing wrong with that.
3) Tulkas -- Cool icon but the background was a little bit yellow for my taste.
4) Estë -- Never heard of this one sorry
5) Mandos -- Is this like.. the Time Valar? I think of them as the Time Valar for some reason. The Halls of Mandos is something I'm sure. Hoth's thing??
6) Vana -- I think maybe I just always thought this was a misspelling of Vala.
7) Vairë -- Bird Valar correct? But not eagle because that was one of the other ones. Birds though?
8) Melkor -- Mo
9) Aule -- The Dwarf Valar. I like dwarves, so props for that
10) Varda -- Blackrose Bugg? If so A+ otherwise A
11) Nessa -- Until this post I thought that was the name of a plaza member, not a Valar
12) Irmo -- You mean Ulmo surely
13) Manwë -- Eagle icon? Bird? Alkthoniel maybe?
14) Oromë -- Protoguy Shiny Horse Icon A+
15) Nienna -- I mean the name quite sounds familiar I will admit
- Points: 1 569
Warrior of Imladris
Posts: 1361
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 10:54 am
Joint first - Varda & Ulmo - my favourite things: stars and water
Close seconds - Yavanna & Orome - plants and horse 'n' hounds
Meh? - Aule, Tulkas, Este, Namo, Irmo, Vana, Vaire, Nessa, Nienna, Manwe - much of a muchness?
Melkor - do you even deserve to be on the list?
Close seconds - Yavanna & Orome - plants and horse 'n' hounds
Meh? - Aule, Tulkas, Este, Namo, Irmo, Vana, Vaire, Nessa, Nienna, Manwe - much of a muchness?
Melkor - do you even deserve to be on the list?
The Wood-elves lingered in the twilight of our Sun and Moon, but loved best the stars.
- Points: 2 114
Chief Counsellor of Gondor
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 3:09 am
Fasicinating...
As a general rule, I don't like the Valar. They're too 'stuffy' and it makes me happy that by the Third Age most of the inhabitants on Middle-earth seem to have stopped worshiping them. But there are a few who aren't bad...
1. Orome - primary reason, Huan. Love Huan. Also, I'm a slight sports fanatic (no baseball is really killing me) and I imagine of all the Valar, Orome would be the most willing to have a beer at a pub with me and watch our favorite teams.
2. Varda - I think she might get the most mentions in Lord of the Rings and is far better than her husband. The mere mention of her name sends most of the baddies fleeing, or thinking twice about their attack.
3. Ulmo - pretty much for all the reasons others mentioned.
4. Yavanna - I was always intrigued by her forcing Saruman to take Radagast to Middle-earth. And Radagast being a complete failure in the Istari 'mission.' Which makes me speculate Yavanna sent Radagast on a different and secret mission to just find peace and live happily with my plants and animals.
5. Mandos - For all the coolness associated with his hall and "going to the halls of Mandos" has a better appeal than Hades' underworld.
6. Nessa - Dance and party away, sounds like someone with more personality than the others.
7. Melkor - Kind of right there in the middle. He's not higher because later in his story there is too much nihilism for me. If he couldn't control something, he just wanted to start trashing everything.
8. Aule - cool to create the dwarves. But his Maiar associates of Sauron and Saruman leave a lot to be desired. A less-evil Melkor, but also less interesting
9-11. Vaire, Este, Vana. They're lumped together because it's my "neutral" group. They haven't really done anything to form strong opinions of disgust like the Valar below, but nothing that stands out to admire either in the Valar above.
12. Irmo - Sounds like a nice forest, but agree with everyone's hatred of dreaming. Especially quarantine dreams, where all my REM sleep deprivation is coming back and I've had some absolutely intense, horrible nightmares for a few months before I started wearing myself out physically and mentally before going to sleep.
13. Tulkas - to some extent I can see a bit of Orome in that "Tulkas would be one of the Valar in a pub" but in a much less positive way. Tulkas and I wouldn't have much in common. Where I can see Orome and me connecting around a love for sports and hounds, I have no interest in silly and useless strength competitions.
14. Manwe - Far too passive and cold. Plus most of his eagles were described as a cruel and selfish birds. If it wasn't for Radagast and Gandalf, Manwe's eagles would be dreadful creatures.
15. Nienna - I just don't get and can't connect on any level
As a general rule, I don't like the Valar. They're too 'stuffy' and it makes me happy that by the Third Age most of the inhabitants on Middle-earth seem to have stopped worshiping them. But there are a few who aren't bad...
1. Orome - primary reason, Huan. Love Huan. Also, I'm a slight sports fanatic (no baseball is really killing me) and I imagine of all the Valar, Orome would be the most willing to have a beer at a pub with me and watch our favorite teams.
2. Varda - I think she might get the most mentions in Lord of the Rings and is far better than her husband. The mere mention of her name sends most of the baddies fleeing, or thinking twice about their attack.
3. Ulmo - pretty much for all the reasons others mentioned.
4. Yavanna - I was always intrigued by her forcing Saruman to take Radagast to Middle-earth. And Radagast being a complete failure in the Istari 'mission.' Which makes me speculate Yavanna sent Radagast on a different and secret mission to just find peace and live happily with my plants and animals.
5. Mandos - For all the coolness associated with his hall and "going to the halls of Mandos" has a better appeal than Hades' underworld.
6. Nessa - Dance and party away, sounds like someone with more personality than the others.
7. Melkor - Kind of right there in the middle. He's not higher because later in his story there is too much nihilism for me. If he couldn't control something, he just wanted to start trashing everything.
8. Aule - cool to create the dwarves. But his Maiar associates of Sauron and Saruman leave a lot to be desired. A less-evil Melkor, but also less interesting
9-11. Vaire, Este, Vana. They're lumped together because it's my "neutral" group. They haven't really done anything to form strong opinions of disgust like the Valar below, but nothing that stands out to admire either in the Valar above.
12. Irmo - Sounds like a nice forest, but agree with everyone's hatred of dreaming. Especially quarantine dreams, where all my REM sleep deprivation is coming back and I've had some absolutely intense, horrible nightmares for a few months before I started wearing myself out physically and mentally before going to sleep.
13. Tulkas - to some extent I can see a bit of Orome in that "Tulkas would be one of the Valar in a pub" but in a much less positive way. Tulkas and I wouldn't have much in common. Where I can see Orome and me connecting around a love for sports and hounds, I have no interest in silly and useless strength competitions.
14. Manwe - Far too passive and cold. Plus most of his eagles were described as a cruel and selfish birds. If it wasn't for Radagast and Gandalf, Manwe's eagles would be dreadful creatures.
15. Nienna - I just don't get and can't connect on any level
A Loquacious Loreman.
he/him
he/him
Tis the season of Sean Bean prequel shows
- Points: 6 125
Balrog
Posts: 3682
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 11:02 am
1) Aulë - Because building things is cool
2) Mandos - What do we say to the God of Death?
3) Varda - I'm a stargazer "watching the eyes of the night"
4) Yavanna - If it wasn't for her, there'd be no real point to trail running
5) Nessa - I'm training for my first marathon, she likes running
6) Oromë - he's the huntsman, but he's probably also the fisherman
7) Ulmo - dude can wreck some shire if he wants
8) Estë - world's first psychotherapist
9) Vairë - anything can be textile if you try hard enough
10) Melkor - at best he's imaginative, at worse, he's a hack
11) Vaná - you're nice but not original enough
12) Tulkas - cool, you're strong, but really so what?
13) Nienna - *no cry me a river references please*
14) Irmo - owner of of Valinor's very own Aokigahara. Yay?
15) Manwë - he's like all the other sky deities in mythology but with no urge to boink everything he sees, what a failure of imagination
2) Mandos - What do we say to the God of Death?
3) Varda - I'm a stargazer "watching the eyes of the night"
4) Yavanna - If it wasn't for her, there'd be no real point to trail running
5) Nessa - I'm training for my first marathon, she likes running
6) Oromë - he's the huntsman, but he's probably also the fisherman
7) Ulmo - dude can wreck some shire if he wants
8) Estë - world's first psychotherapist
9) Vairë - anything can be textile if you try hard enough
10) Melkor - at best he's imaginative, at worse, he's a hack
11) Vaná - you're nice but not original enough
12) Tulkas - cool, you're strong, but really so what?
13) Nienna - *no cry me a river references please*
14) Irmo - owner of of Valinor's very own Aokigahara. Yay?
15) Manwë - he's like all the other sky deities in mythology but with no urge to boink everything he sees, what a failure of imagination
"We are born of the blood, made men by the blood, undone by the blood. Our eyes have yet to open... Fear the Old Blood..."
- Points: 2 032
Istari Steward
Posts: 1089
Joined: Thu May 21, 2020 3:10 pm
I hope halfir is not sad that we are trashing on Irmo since that was his icon. Love all these responses and reasonings!
- Points: 2 761
Ent Ancient
Posts: 1875
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 11:34 pm
1. Yavanna - is and will always be my favourite Valie. Without nature, I am a very unhappy soul AND she created Ents and points for actually trying to help!
2. Ulmo - Besides loving the ocean, Ulmo also actually tried to do stuff to help and having just read The Fall of Gondolin, I have lots of respect for him and he seems like the smartest one.
3. Nienna - wow, so much Nienna hate here... *cries* Seriously, I think having empathy for others is a great strength and something lacking in our world today. Having it for your enemies takes even more strength. Therefore, I actually really like Nienna. Plus grey is my favorite neutral tone and she helped grow the Two Trees.
4. Irmo - as someone who loves gardens and finds them very restful and healing, I gotta so those gardens sound so appealing! Also - I like dreaming, so there's that.
5. Vana - EXCUSE ME BIRDS!!! ENOUGH SAID. Also - 8,000 points for Melian.
6. Este - she was smart and didn't really get involved in all the drama. I kind of can't blame her for that as someone who hates drama I'd probably just avoid everyone and hang out in my garden, too.
7. Orome - more points for actually trying to do something to help! also, horses.
8. Manwe - Eagles are great! But I don't get why he was the King of the Valar.
9. Mandos - I think Mandos had a tough job. But he does some pretty cool stuff you have to admit.
10. Aule - never been the biggest fan of dwarves. I guess I feel a bit 'meh' about them. And for some reason, Aule always bugged me in the books though I can't put my finger on why.
11. Tulkas - if you can tell from above, physical strength alone doesn't necessarily impress me. I feel like that's his only trait.
12. Nessa - I like the deer thing, but she doesn't really do anything besides dance and be a wife. Meh.
13. Varda - I just never understood why she was the queen of the Valie. I like stars well enough and the phial of Galadriel is cool, but that's about it.
14. Vaire - I literally almost forgot about her. So, here she is at #14 because she has to go somewhere. Would have been more useful if she weaved some boots for the hobbits to wear crossing the Misty Mountains or something.
15. Melkor/Morgoth - sorry not sorry but you're not a true Vala. Get out of here.
2. Ulmo - Besides loving the ocean, Ulmo also actually tried to do stuff to help and having just read The Fall of Gondolin, I have lots of respect for him and he seems like the smartest one.
3. Nienna - wow, so much Nienna hate here... *cries* Seriously, I think having empathy for others is a great strength and something lacking in our world today. Having it for your enemies takes even more strength. Therefore, I actually really like Nienna. Plus grey is my favorite neutral tone and she helped grow the Two Trees.
4. Irmo - as someone who loves gardens and finds them very restful and healing, I gotta so those gardens sound so appealing! Also - I like dreaming, so there's that.
5. Vana - EXCUSE ME BIRDS!!! ENOUGH SAID. Also - 8,000 points for Melian.
6. Este - she was smart and didn't really get involved in all the drama. I kind of can't blame her for that as someone who hates drama I'd probably just avoid everyone and hang out in my garden, too.
7. Orome - more points for actually trying to do something to help! also, horses.
8. Manwe - Eagles are great! But I don't get why he was the King of the Valar.
9. Mandos - I think Mandos had a tough job. But he does some pretty cool stuff you have to admit.
10. Aule - never been the biggest fan of dwarves. I guess I feel a bit 'meh' about them. And for some reason, Aule always bugged me in the books though I can't put my finger on why.
11. Tulkas - if you can tell from above, physical strength alone doesn't necessarily impress me. I feel like that's his only trait.
12. Nessa - I like the deer thing, but she doesn't really do anything besides dance and be a wife. Meh.
13. Varda - I just never understood why she was the queen of the Valie. I like stars well enough and the phial of Galadriel is cool, but that's about it.
14. Vaire - I literally almost forgot about her. So, here she is at #14 because she has to go somewhere. Would have been more useful if she weaved some boots for the hobbits to wear crossing the Misty Mountains or something.
15. Melkor/Morgoth - sorry not sorry but you're not a true Vala. Get out of here.
- Points: 932
Ent High Elder
Posts: 549
Joined: Fri May 15, 2020 1:14 pm
1. Namo (Mandos) - The Doomsman of the Valar? How cool is that? Also, something great about the guy who just sits there quietly and then proclaims the doom of an entire race based on the decisions that were made. Also, he advocated heavily against the Valar being isolationists. Additionally, the Halls of Mandos were the only prison capable of containing Melkor (and it was not Namo's fault that Melkor was set free).
2. Ulmo - Didn't turn his back on Middle Earth. Arguably, of all the Valar, he most closely fulfilled their goal of creating a world where the Children of Iluvatar could dwell.
"Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
3. Varda - Marian imagery abounds here. One of the first and most vehement foes of Melkor. There is a reason she is the one that Elves call out to in times of distress and it seems that their prayers are answered, a sign that she has not totally abandoned those in Middle-earth.
"Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her, and feared her more than all others whom Eru made...Of all the Great Ones who dwell in this world the Elves hold Varda most in reverence and love. Elbereth they name her, and they call upon her name out of the shadows of Middle-earth, and uplift it in song at the rising of the stars." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
4. Yavanna - When the Valar became isolationists and hid behind the Walls of the Pelori, creating the Undying Lands, Yavanna was one of the few who returned to Middle-earth. Also, Ents.
"And in that time of dark Yavanna also was unwilling utterly to forsake the Outer Lands; for all things that grow are dear to her, and she mourned for the works that she had begun in Middle-earth but Melkor had marred. Therefore leaving the house of Aulë and the flowering meads of Valinor she would come at times and heal the hurts of Melkor; and returning she would ever urge the Valar to that war with his evil dominion that they must surely wage ere the coming of die Firstborn." (Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days)
5. Orome - Like Yavanna, he did not utterly forsake Middle-earth when the Valar isolated themselves from the rest of the World. Orome it was that found the Elves, and if not for him they might have been doomed to a life of servitude under Melkor. Let us not forget that it was only through Orome's ridings that the Quendi were found in the first place and it was Orome bringing news of their awakening to Valinor that finally spurred the Valar to get off their butts and do something.
"Oromë tarried a while among the Quendi, and then swiftly he rode back over land and sea to Valinor and brought the tidings to Valmar; and he spoke of the shadows that troubled Cuiviénen. Then the Valar rejoiced, and yet they were in doubt amid their joy; and they debated long what counsel it were best to take for the guarding of the Quendi from the shadow of Melkor. But Oromë returned at once to Middle-earth and abode with the Elves." (Silmarillion: Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor)
6. Vana - The 'ever-young' was the sister of Yavanna and aided bringing about the flowering of the olvar. She also gets some credit for Melian.
"Melian was the name of a Maia who served both Vána and Estë; she dwelt long in Lórien, tending the trees that flower in the gardens of Irmo, ere she came to Middle-earth. Nightingales sang about her wherever she went." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
7. Este - She is not counted among the Aratar and her primary contribution seems to be as providing rest and refreshment for those who seek it in Valinor. Per the quote above, she also gets some credit for Melian.
8. Vaire - Of Vaire not much is told other than she is "the Weaver" and the spouse of Mandos. However, considering her artwork is only on display in Valinor, it can be inferred that she did not care much for Middle-earth other than telling the story of the world in her tapestries and may have been part of the isolationist movement among the Valar.
"Vairë the Weaver is his spouse, who weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
9. Nessa - Her sole contribution seems to be that she danced for the Valar after wedding Tulkas. This made the Valar distracted and happy and they did not realize that Melkor had crept back into the World as they ceased their vigilance. This led to the delving of Utumno and eventually the overthrow of the Lamps. However, blame for all of this should not be placed entirely on Nessa. She performed a task she was capable of, the rest of the Valar bear a greater burden of blame for the woes that afterward befell.
Now therefore the Valar were gathered upon Almaren, fearing no evil, and because of the light of Illuin they did not perceive the shadow in the north that was cast from afar by Melkor; for he was grown dark as the Night of the Void. And it is sung that in that feast of the Spring of Arda Tulkas espoused Nessa the sister of Oromë, and she danced before the Valar upon the green grass of Almaren.
Then Tulkas slept, being weary and content, and Melkor deemed that his hour had come. And he passed therefore over the Walls of the Night with his host, and came to Middle-earth far in the north; and the Valar were not aware of him. (Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days)
10. Tulkas - Someone who delights in the fun of sport just for the sake of fun is certainly someone I can get behind. Interestingly enough, even though we are told "He has little heed for either the past or the future, and is of no avail as a counsellor, but is a hardy friend." (Silmarillion, Valaquenta), Tulkas is still one who was wary of Melkor in Valinor, but because of the Pardon of Mandos was unable to do much to hinder Melkor's secret workings.Yet, in his hastiness and rashness, Tulkas seemingly forced Feanor's hand in making a declaration as to whether or not he would give up the Silmarils.
There was long silence, but Fëanor answered no word. Then Tulkas cried: 'Speak, O Noldo,
yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?'
But Aulë the Maker said: 'Be not hasty! We ask a greater thing than thou knowest. Let him
have peace yet awhile.'
But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.' (Silmarillion: Of the Flight of the Noldor)
11. Irmo (Lorien) - Did you ever wonder if Feanor might have turned out differently if his mother had not died at a young age? We are told that in giving birth to Feanor, Miriel spent much of her physical and spiritual power was spent. That said, the only task we are ever told that Irmo is given is when Manwe gives him care of Miriel, and in this he did nothing to help the situation.
"But when Míriel languished still, Finwë sought the counsel of Manwë, and Manwë delivered her to the care of Irmo in Lórien. At their parting (for a little while as he thought) Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of her son.
‘It is indeed unhappy,’ said Míriel, 'and I would weep, if I were not so weary. But hold me blameless in this, and in all that may come after.’
She went then to the gardens of Lórien and lay down to sleep; but though she seemed to sleep, her spirit indeed departed from her body, and passed in silence to the halls of Mandos." (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
12. Aule - He was instrumental in constructing the overall shaping of Arda. However, a lot of bad things seem to come out of his workshop as well. It was Aule who first instructed Feanor in the making of Jewels, which led to the creation of the Silmarils. Additionally, his impatience led to the creation of the Dwarves which caused a lot of strife with the Elves over the ages. Finally, let us not forget that Sauron was initially a Maia of Aule named "Mairon" and Saruman was another Maia of Aule named "Curumo." It seems that Aule was also opposed to the Valar making war on Melkor in order to keep the Quendi from his bondage after the Awakening.
"Then Manwë said to the Valar: 'This is the counsel of Ilúvatar in my heart: that we should take up again the mastery of Arda, at whatsoever cost, and deliver the Quendi from the shadow of Melkor.' Then Tulkas was glad; but Aulë was grieved, foreboding the hurts of the world that must come of that strife." (Silmarillion: Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor)
13. Manwe - On one hand, Manwe seems to be the pipeline between the Valar and Iluvatar. On the other hand, Manwe's complete inability to understand evil is a dramatic hindrance to the Valar actually doing their job. As Chief of the Valar, Manwe bears a lot of the responsibilities for the bad decisions that were made by the group as a whole. Manwe it was that pardoned Melkor.
"Then Manwë granted him pardon; but the Valar would not yet suffer him to depart beyond their sight and vigilance, and he was constrained to dwell within the gates of Valmar. But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwë that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manwë was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Ilúvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor’s heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever." (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
14. Nienna - After Melkor served his sentence of Three Ages, the Valar debated whether or not he should be set free. It was specifically through Nienna's aid that Melkor was freed from captivity. All the evils that befell the Elves afterwards can be traced back to Nienna aiding Melkor's plea for pardon.
"Melkor abased himself at the feet of Manwë and sued for pardon, vowing that if he might be made only the least of the free people of Valinor he would aid the Valar in all their works, and most of all in the healing of the many hurts that he had done to the world. And Nienna aided his prayer" (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
15. Melkor - Melkor is the guy who shows up to Symphony Band practice with an electric guitar and turns the amp up to 11. He's just a straight up jerk who is more interested in ruining things that other people make than actually doing anything constructive on his own. He is like the little brother that comes in and smashes your Lego set you just spent hours putting together. The Myths Transformed section of Morgoth's Ring is one of my favorite pieces of Tolkien's writing. Melkor/Morgoth literally hated everything so much he spent a vast portion of his spiritual energy trying to utterly destroy and maim the world. He is completely beyond hope and redemption.
2. Ulmo - Didn't turn his back on Middle Earth. Arguably, of all the Valar, he most closely fulfilled their goal of creating a world where the Children of Iluvatar could dwell.
"Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
3. Varda - Marian imagery abounds here. One of the first and most vehement foes of Melkor. There is a reason she is the one that Elves call out to in times of distress and it seems that their prayers are answered, a sign that she has not totally abandoned those in Middle-earth.
"Out of the deeps of Eä she came to the aid of Manwë; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her, and feared her more than all others whom Eru made...Of all the Great Ones who dwell in this world the Elves hold Varda most in reverence and love. Elbereth they name her, and they call upon her name out of the shadows of Middle-earth, and uplift it in song at the rising of the stars." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
4. Yavanna - When the Valar became isolationists and hid behind the Walls of the Pelori, creating the Undying Lands, Yavanna was one of the few who returned to Middle-earth. Also, Ents.
"And in that time of dark Yavanna also was unwilling utterly to forsake the Outer Lands; for all things that grow are dear to her, and she mourned for the works that she had begun in Middle-earth but Melkor had marred. Therefore leaving the house of Aulë and the flowering meads of Valinor she would come at times and heal the hurts of Melkor; and returning she would ever urge the Valar to that war with his evil dominion that they must surely wage ere the coming of die Firstborn." (Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days)
5. Orome - Like Yavanna, he did not utterly forsake Middle-earth when the Valar isolated themselves from the rest of the World. Orome it was that found the Elves, and if not for him they might have been doomed to a life of servitude under Melkor. Let us not forget that it was only through Orome's ridings that the Quendi were found in the first place and it was Orome bringing news of their awakening to Valinor that finally spurred the Valar to get off their butts and do something.
"Oromë tarried a while among the Quendi, and then swiftly he rode back over land and sea to Valinor and brought the tidings to Valmar; and he spoke of the shadows that troubled Cuiviénen. Then the Valar rejoiced, and yet they were in doubt amid their joy; and they debated long what counsel it were best to take for the guarding of the Quendi from the shadow of Melkor. But Oromë returned at once to Middle-earth and abode with the Elves." (Silmarillion: Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor)
6. Vana - The 'ever-young' was the sister of Yavanna and aided bringing about the flowering of the olvar. She also gets some credit for Melian.
"Melian was the name of a Maia who served both Vána and Estë; she dwelt long in Lórien, tending the trees that flower in the gardens of Irmo, ere she came to Middle-earth. Nightingales sang about her wherever she went." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
7. Este - She is not counted among the Aratar and her primary contribution seems to be as providing rest and refreshment for those who seek it in Valinor. Per the quote above, she also gets some credit for Melian.
8. Vaire - Of Vaire not much is told other than she is "the Weaver" and the spouse of Mandos. However, considering her artwork is only on display in Valinor, it can be inferred that she did not care much for Middle-earth other than telling the story of the world in her tapestries and may have been part of the isolationist movement among the Valar.
"Vairë the Weaver is his spouse, who weaves all things that have ever been in Time into her storied webs, and the halls of Mandos that ever widen as the ages pass are clothed with them." (Silmarillion: Valaquenta)
9. Nessa - Her sole contribution seems to be that she danced for the Valar after wedding Tulkas. This made the Valar distracted and happy and they did not realize that Melkor had crept back into the World as they ceased their vigilance. This led to the delving of Utumno and eventually the overthrow of the Lamps. However, blame for all of this should not be placed entirely on Nessa. She performed a task she was capable of, the rest of the Valar bear a greater burden of blame for the woes that afterward befell.
Now therefore the Valar were gathered upon Almaren, fearing no evil, and because of the light of Illuin they did not perceive the shadow in the north that was cast from afar by Melkor; for he was grown dark as the Night of the Void. And it is sung that in that feast of the Spring of Arda Tulkas espoused Nessa the sister of Oromë, and she danced before the Valar upon the green grass of Almaren.
Then Tulkas slept, being weary and content, and Melkor deemed that his hour had come. And he passed therefore over the Walls of the Night with his host, and came to Middle-earth far in the north; and the Valar were not aware of him. (Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days)
10. Tulkas - Someone who delights in the fun of sport just for the sake of fun is certainly someone I can get behind. Interestingly enough, even though we are told "He has little heed for either the past or the future, and is of no avail as a counsellor, but is a hardy friend." (Silmarillion, Valaquenta), Tulkas is still one who was wary of Melkor in Valinor, but because of the Pardon of Mandos was unable to do much to hinder Melkor's secret workings.Yet, in his hastiness and rashness, Tulkas seemingly forced Feanor's hand in making a declaration as to whether or not he would give up the Silmarils.
There was long silence, but Fëanor answered no word. Then Tulkas cried: 'Speak, O Noldo,
yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?'
But Aulë the Maker said: 'Be not hasty! We ask a greater thing than thou knowest. Let him
have peace yet awhile.'
But Fëanor spoke then, and cried bitterly: 'For the less even as for the greater there is some deed that he may accomplish but once only; and in that deed his heart shall rest. It may be that I can unlock my jewels, but never again shall I make their like; and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman.' (Silmarillion: Of the Flight of the Noldor)
11. Irmo (Lorien) - Did you ever wonder if Feanor might have turned out differently if his mother had not died at a young age? We are told that in giving birth to Feanor, Miriel spent much of her physical and spiritual power was spent. That said, the only task we are ever told that Irmo is given is when Manwe gives him care of Miriel, and in this he did nothing to help the situation.
"But when Míriel languished still, Finwë sought the counsel of Manwë, and Manwë delivered her to the care of Irmo in Lórien. At their parting (for a little while as he thought) Finwë was sad, for it seemed an unhappy chance that the mother should depart and miss the beginning at least of the childhood days of her son.
‘It is indeed unhappy,’ said Míriel, 'and I would weep, if I were not so weary. But hold me blameless in this, and in all that may come after.’
She went then to the gardens of Lórien and lay down to sleep; but though she seemed to sleep, her spirit indeed departed from her body, and passed in silence to the halls of Mandos." (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
12. Aule - He was instrumental in constructing the overall shaping of Arda. However, a lot of bad things seem to come out of his workshop as well. It was Aule who first instructed Feanor in the making of Jewels, which led to the creation of the Silmarils. Additionally, his impatience led to the creation of the Dwarves which caused a lot of strife with the Elves over the ages. Finally, let us not forget that Sauron was initially a Maia of Aule named "Mairon" and Saruman was another Maia of Aule named "Curumo." It seems that Aule was also opposed to the Valar making war on Melkor in order to keep the Quendi from his bondage after the Awakening.
"Then Manwë said to the Valar: 'This is the counsel of Ilúvatar in my heart: that we should take up again the mastery of Arda, at whatsoever cost, and deliver the Quendi from the shadow of Melkor.' Then Tulkas was glad; but Aulë was grieved, foreboding the hurts of the world that must come of that strife." (Silmarillion: Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor)
13. Manwe - On one hand, Manwe seems to be the pipeline between the Valar and Iluvatar. On the other hand, Manwe's complete inability to understand evil is a dramatic hindrance to the Valar actually doing their job. As Chief of the Valar, Manwe bears a lot of the responsibilities for the bad decisions that were made by the group as a whole. Manwe it was that pardoned Melkor.
"Then Manwë granted him pardon; but the Valar would not yet suffer him to depart beyond their sight and vigilance, and he was constrained to dwell within the gates of Valmar. But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwë that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manwë was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Ilúvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor’s heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever." (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
14. Nienna - After Melkor served his sentence of Three Ages, the Valar debated whether or not he should be set free. It was specifically through Nienna's aid that Melkor was freed from captivity. All the evils that befell the Elves afterwards can be traced back to Nienna aiding Melkor's plea for pardon.
"Melkor abased himself at the feet of Manwë and sued for pardon, vowing that if he might be made only the least of the free people of Valinor he would aid the Valar in all their works, and most of all in the healing of the many hurts that he had done to the world. And Nienna aided his prayer" (Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor)
15. Melkor - Melkor is the guy who shows up to Symphony Band practice with an electric guitar and turns the amp up to 11. He's just a straight up jerk who is more interested in ruining things that other people make than actually doing anything constructive on his own. He is like the little brother that comes in and smashes your Lego set you just spent hours putting together. The Myths Transformed section of Morgoth's Ring is one of my favorite pieces of Tolkien's writing. Melkor/Morgoth literally hated everything so much he spent a vast portion of his spiritual energy trying to utterly destroy and maim the world. He is completely beyond hope and redemption.
Fangorn Forever
- Points: 175
New Soul
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:58 pm
1. Este - Because it was me and I was Este and I love myself most of all.
she/her
