Ranger Headquarters (OOC)

[Arnyn]

Ranger Headquarters
OOC Discussion

Hey everyone!
HEAR YE HEAR YE
First things first! ^^

Oro and I put our heads together and figured out the idea below, which is, to be clear, a suggestion. Everyone who is interested in joining the Rangers, can weigh in on this (please do!) and we can all make this new ‘army’ into something we like and agree on together.
Update May 24: updated this post to reflect current situation

Why did we take this route of trying to outline something to start with, then?
We wanted to try it this way, by suggesting a basis to you all first, because otherwise we fear it could take months before getting to a finished product which we can start enjoying.
Any discussion with 10 or more people is going to take a long time as is, and to complicate things further we’d have to deal with different time zones, schedules, work lives, family lives, etc.

So please take a look at what we were thinking, <update: please take a look at what we landed on for now>[/color]
and then feel free to comment here and totally trash it, tweak it - whatever you feel about it.
Please take into account that a 100% agreement all over the board is probably impossible with all of our opinions, though, so realistically this project will probably mean a compromise for many if not all of us.
xxx

*

Context (Suggestion)

The Fourth Age won out in the poll. General background to this new version of the Rangers:

After the War of the Ring and the Fall of Sauron, and the initial years of dealing with the war’s aftermath, King Aragorn listened to the hearts of his people: citizens wanted their husbands, wifes, sons and daughters to return home and enjoy the newfound peace in the land. Additionally, funds were needed to rebuild homes and resow fields on the Pelennor, as well as for Aragorn’s grand-scale renovation and restoration plans for the White City itself.

Taking all these new needs into account, the Captains of Gondor and their men and women were allowed to return to their fiefdoms and homes should they choose, and the Minas Tirith Army and the Elite Ranger Corps were disbanded in return for something different - yet with elements many might recognize as very similar.

The denomination of the Rangers would not be abandoned, as Aragorn himself found it too difficult to part with, especially after his years being CinC, and the idea behind the ERC would stay true as well:
Minas Tirith and the Gondorian borderlands with Mordor would always need an elite force for their defenses, and a body of Rangers based in Minas Tirith would see to just that, but the need for a larger ERC had passed, so this new version would be more compact, with fewer bodies and fewer ranks.


Command <updated>

This presented one problem, however, which Aragorn wanted to get ahead of:
If every current and returning officer from the Army and the ERC would choose to apply and transfer, there would simply be too many officers compared to the new organization’s needs.

That’s why he used his kingly power to choose as his commander of these new Rangers a seasoned man (an NPC) with an iron will, a Ranger Commander who insisted that - other from his/her second (also an NPC): the Ranger Lieutenant - everyone who transferred would start at the same level. This commander stood for no nepotism, no special treatment and no exceptions:

Existing full members as well as officers of the Army and the ERC would all take on the rank of Ranger, no higher nor any lower. New applicants who still needed extensive training would start as recruits.

To avoid deciding on who gets to call the shots, the Commander and his/her Lieutenant start out as NPC’s. If you'll allow us, we have a first story for the Rangers in mind, which will end with the possibility to replace them. So we would be GMing the first storyline through command NPCs who later simply go away (don't want to ruin the story already, so no further details other than the mecanics).

After that, there are two options:

1/ new GMs step up and get to make their own Commander/Lieutenant NPCs, once the storyline has reached its conclusion they think of a reason they can once again be replaced and it all starts over with again new GMs, allowing for a rotation and fresh ideas and no one falling into a rut;
2/ the Rangers as a whole choose their Commander and Lieutenant from among our own characters.


Skill Sets <updated>

Rangers would all need to posses 4 different skill sets, regardless of their chosen main weapon or specialty:

1) Scouting
This includes scouting, stealth and tracking.
2) Survival:
This includes basic survival techniques such as building fires, making your own shelter, knowing how to look for food and water, and basic first aid.
3) Combat:
This includes unarmed combat, melee and ranged combat.
4) General:
General skills include riding, equipment upkeep,...


Specialties <updated>

Rangers can specialize in one of the following:

- bow skills - Cúner
- spear skills - Ehtyar
- axe skills - Pelecconner
- sword skills - Hyandaner
- scouting skills - Tirdinen
- support skills (such as advanced healing, military logistics, armour and weapons crafting) - Yantyar

Choosing a specialization does not mean you are in a division of people with that same specialization. These Rangers work as one unit, one group, with no subdivisions other than what is necessary in the field. No seperate barracks floors or common rooms per specialization etc.

Depending on the Ranger’s specialty, their field commander is more or less determined:
The Commander controls the Ranged, Melee and Support specialties, while the Lieutenant controls the Scouting specialty.
Commander controls the Ranged, Melee and Support specialities and rotates through one leader per specialty from campaign to campaign.
First Officer controls the Vanguard, which is composed of Rangers with the Scouting specialty.


Equipment <updated>

Weapons choice:

- one melee weapon
- one ranged weapon
- one dagger
- shield or buckler is optional

Armor:

- player’s choice but keep it realistic
- rank badge


Ranks <updated>

CO ranks:

Commander
First in Command and leader of the Rangers of Gondor.

Lieutenant
Second in Command of the Rangers of Gondor. Works together closely with the Commander.

Enlisted ranks:

Sergeant
Highest NCO-rank.

Corporal
Lowest NCO-rank.

Hyandaner/Ehtyar/Peleconner/Cŭner/Tirdinen/Yantyar (Ranger Specialization)
Title maybe used after training in and demonstrating increased mastery over that weapons form or support speciality and utilization in combat.

Ranger
At this stage you will have the title of Ranger, be able to participate as a full member of the Rangers and you can be utilized in any role. It indicates that the individual has acquired sufficient knowledge of the 4 main skills (survival - combat - scouting - general skills including riding.) The name alone garners the respect of your peers.

Recruit
All rangers once accepted by the Commander or SinC begin with this level. A mentor may be requested to work on weapons specialization, but all recruits are assumed to have basic combat and survival skills since the Rangers are an Elite unit.

<updated to situation as of May 24th>.

Rangers Roster

Commander
Amathen
(NPC, played by Oro)

Lieutenant
Macardil
(NPC, played by Arnyn)

Sergeant
NA

Corporal
NA

Rangers who''ve chosen and earned their specialization:
Cúner:
NA
Ehtyar:
NA
Hyandaner:
NA
Peleconner:
NA
Tirdinen:
NA
Yantyar:
NA

Rangers:
(listed by order of joining/appearing in the first RPG)
Karis Ziranphel
Thûllir Bregedŷr
Arnyn Dealedwen
Turin Ringhûn
Pele Alarion
Red Daghul
Kaylin Maethyr
Mourgan Alarion
Ilisys Azrubêl
Kamion Balakân
Durien Arrandir
Zevarion Grey
Morwen Daegomir
Arothir Angranc
Arinelle Sarlayqua
Beren Camlost
Unalmis Raxëlilta
Jaena
Abrazimir Dimaethor
Hirluin
Azdiur
Udan
Pellaadarion (still to appear in RPG thread)

Recruits:
NA

[Oro]

For anyone that wants one of the better old links to the Rangers, here is a link to the old Ranger Headquarters with links to the handbook and all that.

https://web.archive.org/web/2005031005 ... Position=1

Edit: Also, Arnyn and i have been working on a fun story with some good NPC leadership. We wont be doing any training, we will assume everyone is competent. We will include a Barracks Thread for casual RP and then a main story arc thread which will be in the field. We want this to be more of a story and less of an organization, until everyone is back into it fully and then we can decide who will replace the retiring or demoted leadership that is already in place.

Hope everyone likes our progress soo far. Tried to keep it similar to the old style.

[Burnt Toast]

Hey you two-- thank you so much for the work you have done. I am so excited about this! I agree that too many cooks in the kitchen (brilliant, creative, wonderful cooks that I look forward to cooking with)-- would have led to this taking a lot of time to come to any conclusion. So thank you for bringing a fleshed out outline for us to discuss!

Percolating on much of this, and my brain is drawn first to consider the ranks situation, in terms of Recruit, Ranger, etc. I think the title of Ranger would come with achieving the basic four skill sets; and not necessarily having chosen a specialization. Mainly because if feels like what makes a Ranger is having those skillsets, and I think adding to the title once specialization training has occurred makes more sense to me.

I maybe misread-- but did you mean that in that case, say we did
Recruit (during training, before the four main skills are gained)
Ranger (once the four main skills have been mastered)
Elite Ranger (once a specialization is chosen)

And/or-- since I did love the old titles-- bring back Hyandaner, etc.-- and utilize those as well, to denote specialization (so I suppose a few of those you mentioned would need new names). Or does that feel like it would be too confusing with trying to do something that is separate from the old ERC?
So when specialization is earned/chosen-- Elite Hyandaner? Though maybe I'm creating confusion, because I only half remember various iterations of the corps.

OR did you mean Elite is for when you achieve the 4 skills and BEFORE a specialization is chosen? That confused me a bit.

Maybe my ramblings don't make sense. XD

I do also think it would be nice to toss in a couple more ranks (not a ton), that could be earned on the first campaign-- don't all have to be command related. Hm.

[Ercassie]

That is a good outline Arnyn and Oro.

And I love Morwen’s idea of specifying the elite/chosen skill by the traditional division title ! At least as far as anyone who chooses a Cuner/Ehtyar/Hyadaner/pelecconer melee/ranged skill is concerned. Flashback feel goods ! :smiley8:

When you say you will be doing no training, does that mean a recruit would be able to partake in the RPG and consider that ‘on-job’ training ? Either of the two characters I am considering for this I would probably start back from scratch as it’s been years since I’ve partaken in any organised military IC.

And lastly, how do you feel about Dol Amroth born transfer type IC come to learn/serve how they do it over in the capital ? Because that might well dictate my choice of potential character.

[Oro]

@Ercassie I think that the best option would be for your character to time skip training for the main campaign, and then you can grab a veteran and go to the non main story thread and work on some training. If you’d like that. Your character doesn’t need to be very experienced for the main quest, just finished with basic training type stuff.

[Turin Ringhûn]

Hello all. I'm working on updating the old Ranger Handbook. I have it in a word doc on google drive here. The original Handbook is here. I am happy to make whatever changes necessary to it to be applicable to the new Rangers.

As of now, I'm tweaking the intro, the Division sections, and the Weapons and Armor Sections.

Edit @ May 16th 14:47 Eastern Time
I have completed my initial edits. There are likely still many changes to be made. But I think this is a good place to start.

[Pele Alarion]

The plan looks very workable and reasonable for the start.

The ranks: not sure how many are needed unless we get lots of people, but perhaps an NCO rank somewhere in between?
Recruit - Ranger - Elite Ranger sounds good.

The use of old division names (maybe to show specialisation) might be fun, but then again I am biased. :P

[Arnyn]

Ercassie, contrary to Oro , I would dare to leave that choice up to you. Reason being we've always had a tradition in MT of including rookies in campaigns and storylines and such as well. But then this character would still need to do official training somehow, at a later date, because even though a lot can be learned in practice about survival and scouting, you need muscle memory for combat. Also doing the storyline first and the training later to supplement your character's experience might simply be less confusing for everyone involved.
And why not bring in a Dol Amrothian! Citizens of Gondor are allowed to move, right? :smiley8:

Toast, well whatever the people want! We didn't really pinpoint anything yet for that very reason. I'd like being able to call my character(s) Hyandaner, I'm not gonna hide that. :D
In that case what sounds good to me would be something like

Recruit
Ranger
Hyandaner Ranger / Peleconner Ranger / Cúner Ranger / Ehtyar Ranger - and then two more cool names for the Scouting and Support specializations
Elite or Veteran Hyandaner and so on and so forth
some NCO rank

Or we don't make the division names as part of a rank title (cause that could get to be a mouthful) but just make it additional info:
Recruit
Ranger
Elite Ranger (of the Hyandaner/Peleconner/Ehtyar/Cúner/ etc class)
some NCO rank (of the Hyandaner/Peleconner/Ehtyar/Cúner/ etc class)

Turin

[Oro]

@Arnyn I did not say that the choice wasn’t, Ercassie’s I said that I would assume if you made it to the main campaign you have at least the basics. Not an expert but they wouldn’t let some kid into battle. We can always fiddle with it. I just know that for the most part people did not want training back.

@Turin Ringhûn Love it! Thanks so much man!

As for ranks, I think that we all agree that the Commander and Lieutenant are GM characters? Then the rest of the ranks are just RP ranks that dont hold power. During a campaign the Commander has authority to make anyone the “Sergeant” of the squad for that mission. I think this would allow multiple people to run missions. But if we want Sergeant to be an actual rank we can.

I think:
Recruit
Ranger
Speciality Weapon Title (SWT) Ranger (earned once mastery of weapon)
SWT Corporal (earned once having led successfully on a mission, denotes capable leader)
Sergeant (Any Ranger or Corporal can hold this title depending on mission. Leads that division (not weapon specialty) for that mission. Returns to Division Corporal after that mission)
Lieutenant or Major (GM/NPC for now)
Commander (GM/NPC for now)

Then I think we have to separate the concept of Speciality and Division here. Speciality is just your chosen weapon. Division is where you are serving on this campaign. One is not stuck in a certain Division.

Specialities would be: Hyandaner, CUner, Peleconner, Ehtyar, Roquen, Muinamamacar (Or some combination of those)
Divisions would be: Vanguard (Scouts), Melee Division (could use a fancy name), Ranged Division (Could also use a fancy name) and Support (also, I’m not good with names you see.)

Just some ideas.

[Turin Ringhûn]

@ Oro I like that division setup. I can make the necessary edits as we figure things out more. As for the Specialties, I think I have that more or less set up in the Training section of the Guide. How I have it right now is person comes in and joins and are given the title of Recruit. At Basic Training, make at least 4 training posts demonstrating RP skills and learning the basics. After these posts, they're given the title of Page where they pick a specialty: Hyandaner, Peleccone, Ehtyar, or Cuner. They then make at least 2 more training posts where they further explore their new specialty and more in depth training using the basics they previously learning in conjunction with their desired weapon choice. Upon completing this, they're a Full Ranger. I left the Elite part alone as that originally came with actually participating in the Tower Guard and missions.

I didn't do anything to the Roquen and Muinamacar as those were special branches and I wasn't sure how we'd want to proceed with them.

Now that I'm thinking about it, we can up the Page to Full Post count to at least 4 as well. At least 2 to get the chosen specialty training done, then at least 2 to go towards one of the Divisions: Vanguard, Melee, Ranged, Support.

In the Original training regime, it was Trainee - Scout - Page - Squire - Full. I figured shrinking it down to Recruit - Page - Full would make things easier to manage and things could pick up quicker.

[Karis Ziranphel]

First of all what I like: I like what you two have put together. Thank you for laying the groundwork, and I look forward to writing story together!
If I may, I would like to offer up what I had written for the third age Vanguard unit as comparison (portions of which are quoted from the OP in italics below) and a resource for ongoing discussion. My intent is in no way to trash what you have done, but to add to what people can look at as we think things over and dream up what could be.
I think the structure was useful, and the failure was on my part as I am not a very good GM. In my mind it was what I had personally wanted the Rangers to be, building on what was then, while being informed by the books and my own military experience. Some of you have seen this before, and to others it may be new.
It does not need to be used, but may be a resource for refining your concept. I think the simplicity is useful. i.e. Scout specialists who are trained Hyandander or Cuner etc. Or Hyandander and medic. The role within a squad or small group would not be only determined by weapon speciality, continuing your idea of everyone having a given basic level of assumed proficiency in survival, scouting, etc.
Some points of the structure discussed thus far in the thread that I personally have troubles with: I guess I find it confusing to call things divisions, when in modern military that is a very large unit comprised of several brigades, even though it is a familiar word from early days of the plaza. It made sense in the ERC when it was used as a large army. Not sure it makes sense to call individual roles divisions. No uniform would be needed, as folks always like to write detailed posts about gear, although I often saw mention of uniforms in threads once we got into role play.
Lastly, I personally have no desire to go back to the initial ERC training method, but if individuals wish to have brand new recruits it may make some sense. The delay in being allowed to participate was a huge drawback for me. I spent years as a scout because that was the role I wanted to play, but wasn't allowed to write as such in rpgs. Oro's suggestion of immediately being participants does follow that it is not the recruits' first time picking up a weapon etc. and I like that idea. They are not training to be knights but rangers. Pages and squires are more appropriate to the path to knighthood, and roles that are filled for many years, not just a few weeks or months.

Situated on the far northern end of the first circle, abutted against the rocky shoulder of Mindolluin, the path of the first circle ends in front of an imposing building of white stone. The unique architectural design gives the large building the look of a six-pointed star. It has a small courtyard at the front of it with an eight-foot stone fence to either side of the building, which connects to both the outer and inner walls of the first circle. Behind the stone-wall training courtyards can be glimpsed, that find heavy use when it is not safe to venture to the training grounds outside the gate. Crossing the forecourt to approach the threshold, broad oak doors reinforced with iron bands bar the way forward.
Upon entering, a wide hall expands within; white stone lit by torch and window. Although mostly featureless, some key points catch your attention. There are small windows, high on the walls which let in narrow shafts of light, few enough that torches are lit at any hour. Stone benches line the walls, so that soldiers might sit a while whilst awaiting their duty. Here are found the Offices of the Commander and staff, as well as a large notice board upon which messages are affixed. Paper, quills, and ink are found on a stand to the side of the board, and many soldiers make use of them to leave notes requesting training partners, or to request leave.
(This playable component of Denethor's army does not represent the Gondorian army in its entirety, nor the Tower Guard of the books, and soldiers were also based in the garrison at the Tower of Ecthelion, Osgilliath, Cair Andros, and numerous other forts throughout the realm. The Vanguard Company is a cross-over unit between the traditional garrison soldiers of the Tower Guard, and the mobile Rangers of Ithilien. Lightly armored, yet heavily armed, they will see action throughout the realm in support of units that are stretched thin due to increased border skirmishes, and take to the high seas when requested by the Fleets at Pelargir and Dol Amroth.)
Commander: Captain ....
Second in Command: Lieutenant....
Vanguard is comprised of two fighting squads: Ithil and Anor, led by sergeants. Both squads contain a variety of warriors with differing specializations. When recruits signup they have the opportunity to choose their specialty, although all Vanguard soldiers need a basic grasp of sword, spear, and bow.
Ehtyar: Spearmen of Gondor. Armed with both tall spears and short javelins, their specialty is fighting against swordsmen and cavalry. Polearms are their livelihood, yet they also carry shortswords.
Hyandaner: Swordsmen of Gondor. Specializing in everything edged that doesn’t bear a pole, from shortswords to longswords or great two-handed blades, these men and women are most dangerous in close-up fighting.
Cúner: Archers of Gondor. Like their breathren, the Rangers of Ithilien, these archers specialize in striking the enemy from a distance. The longbow is highly favored, but many also choose the recurve for its compact power. They carry short or longswords for close-in fighting depending on their preference.
*Actual weaponry will depend upon mission criteria and feasibility.
Secondary specialties are also sought after, as they have a high value for a small unit that has such a broad array of duties, and spare time is spent training in these areas as well. From wielding a secondary weapon to map reading, tracking, herb-lore, wood-lore, surveying, and sailing, these specialties are diverse and valuable.
Uniform: Although the formal uniform consists of a black surcoat emblazoned with the white tree, and a winged helm similar to the Tower Guard, the regular fighting attire is quite different. Similar to the Rangers, those of the Vanguard are clad in hardened leather armor with scant chain. Shirts and trousers were of dark gray, with tunics the green of the woodland hills. Cloaks were the green-gray of heather, and soldiers were issued a set consisting of a lightweight summer cloak and a heavy woolen one for winter.
Upon the Pelannor, outside the Great Gates and situated beside the walls of Minas Tirith and near the mountain is found the large training grounds of the soldiers of Minas Tirith. Light woods are present for practice in tracking, as well as various pells, grounds set aside for weapons practice. Balance courses and obstacle courses can be found here, as well as butts for archery practice. Practice courts are also present within the headquarters grounds, but both locations will be RP’d in the Training Grounds thread. This is where those of the Vanguard may write their practice seasons or train with mentors.
Advancement: This is still in its development phase, but most soldiers of the Vanguard will be of the same rank. Rank structure is minimal, with emphasis on unit cohesion. Within the specialties one can train to improve their skills, and mentors may be assigned to new recruits to help with rp-ing in the military. Promotion to either rank or higher skill levels will be at the commander’s discretion, and subject to mentor’s recommendations.

How to join: Present yourself to the Commander indicating your wish to join (Give the name of your character). Character description and some backstory would be helpful. Note that as this is a specialized unit some military background is preferred, although exceptions may be made. You will not already be the most elite warrior ever, but neither should it be the first time your character picks up a weapon. Please include your preference of weapons specialty, although if you are undecided you will be given a standard kit, and you may choose later.

[Red Daghul]

Just adding my thoughts, first I do like where this is going, but I have to agree with Karis specially with then divisions. I think that because I believe the idea is that we would be working in smaller groups there might not be the need for a large group of a specific type of fighter. Rather from what we have talked about the Rangers (as in what we are making) would be more of division in and of itself. I do like the idea of using the old division names as the specializations, and letting it be one group with different styles. I feel like it we would work in groups that have a balance of specialties. At least for the time being while we are a small group, if more people join in and we start finding ourselves with a large number of people RPing with us we could rethink and rework.

I also think maybe starting new people at a place where the basic idea of fighting so they can join in on RPs earlier would be helpful, but maybe they are given a mentor in them. For example lets say Robert (random new recruit) is assigned Red as a mentor he can join the RP, but he would be assigned to work with Red. That way it gives them some extra things to role play, as well as, develop relations for new players helping them know what to do in the current RP. I remember how helpful it was to have the trainer in my early days, but I also remember feeling a bit shy in the bigger RPs. Feel like I am rambling a bit, but maybe it is a way to look at the training differently... if that makes sense haha.

If we wanted to keep the use of the two elite specializations maybe that is how you reach the rank of Elite Ranger (or what ever we choose the next rank to be called), or maybe move around the specializations to fit that idea. I don't its a thought. Love all the conversations around this though, some really cool ideas.

Edit: Forgot one more idea, I know we have the HoH, but maybe a Field medic specialty might be another cool elite type of training, and would allow for a good connection with the HoH and the Rangers. Might lead to some really cool stories.

[Oro]

@Red Daghul I think the word divisions is throwing people off more than it should. What I meant by division was Squad or Team. Like a Marine Fireteam. I wasn’t intending it to be a large branch, but a small force that was specialized. On the training by attaching to a veteran I think that is a lovely idea, but that’s up to the group. I would be in favor of assigning recruits to ranks.

Here are my ideas. From the posts, and my input. Just input mind you.

First: This is a new thing for all of us. Slight changes and mergers of old ideas to create a new fun thing. I dont think we should be too attached to the past. And with that I mean lets create a framework that is small but has the foundation to grow big. We don’t need post limits or a lot of detail to have fun writing, but we can always add that. Let’s not get caught up in the little fine details when we can fine tune it later. Just my opinion.

Ok to clarify, I think that instead of there being Cuner, Hyandander, Roquen ect “squads” we will instead let each soldier specialize in a weapon. Once they are a specialist, they gain the title of “Cuner” or “Hyandaner” ect. So that doesn’t determine who you work with, just what weapon you specialize in. Allows us to keep the old ERC lore and flair but not over split ourselves.

But instead use Squads or Divisions or whatever title we want to use for a “small group of soldiers” as jobs for a certain campaign. The Scout Squad/Division(Vanguard) will be made up of some of each weapon speciality. Then we can break the “squads” up into: Scout, Melee, Ranged, and Support

Support Division would be fun to have them RP in the Houses of Healing practicing. Ect, but wouldn’t need to make it necessary. I see support as people that dont have to love combat but want to join in the RP. Like your healers, supply train, logistics. Maybe the people that take care of the horses and equipment. Engineers as well. They could all have new titles that we work out. But we dont need that all to start. Just the basics.

On Elite Specializations: I think we can either make them no longer elite or just give them to people who have earned through merit a special title. Like if Hyandaner Arnyn joins the scouting party and is an elite scout, and shows excellent stealth skills, the commander can name her a Muinamamacar. Ect. Just an idea.

[Burnt Toast]

I understand the points about the term 'divisions', but I think it works well in our context-- and sounds good. I think we needn't be too worried about various terminology getting crossed, since we are essentially creating our own framework here; and we all know what we mean within our world.

I agree we don't have numbers to split ourselves by Hyandaner, etc-- and @Oro I like the idea of that simply being your specialization, still used as a title (because I really loved those as titles), and you work with whoever is in your division / group / whatever we call it.

As far as the 'elite specializations', I do love the idea of getting to train to some of those skill sets, or focus a character in those directions. Were those additional training on top of the other specializations? I can't remember. Oro, is your suggestion just if a character shows a propensity toward a skill set in rp, that can be granted? That is a cool thought, but it might be hard for that to be, hm, 'noticed accurately', and awarded/earned?

I think I just want to be a sneaky sneak. XD Okay, time for sleep. For real now.

[Oro]

@Mor Toast I think I personally dont like the idea of “Elite” or additional Specializations. Just have all the Specializations be equal. Including sneky snek. I think any ranger can train with any specialization.

And on the topic of how to earn rank, I think really in our OOC posts we all name what we want to work for, and the NPC commander after seeing wonderful actions and great feats will promote people. We can obviously also train, but I dont want to get bogged down by it.

[Red Daghul]

Oro: I think that we have the same idea, I think that the name makes it sound bigger, but a name is a name. My main point is really more to what your pointing out. I think that with a basic idea of where we are heading the rest will work itself out in time. I guess with the old names my point was that if you choose a sword as your main weapon than you are choosing more of a style. That style could hold the name of Hyandaner, though it doesn't really mean you only work with them just that it is you chosen fighting style. Which I think is kind where most of our thoughts are heading, unless I am way off. That was the point I was trying to make.

My point on Elite would mainly be a ranger that chooses to become a specialist in one of three areas that kind stick out of the normal ranger skills Horses, Medical, and Stealth. So mainly Elite just says you have done the work to add a specialist skill to your ranger. It gives it some structure, and a way to more easily know how to obtain a rank or title. Though I don't know if it is overly important at the moment, as you stated it is all input and thoughts. Figured this is mainly a brain storming session. If we rather wait for any other thoughts I'm down for just letting it happen. :smiley8:

[Ercassie]

Thank you both Oro and Arnyn for your responses to my question. I certainly wasn’t intending that participation in the RPG would be day one of a character’s military career and of course it stands to reason that they would need to be competent enough not to hold up the group or endanger it with their inexperience. I was thinking more that it would be possible (not mandatory though - let’s not get too strict here) to ‘showcase’ those four basic skill sets as were mentioned in the outline, during the course of the RPG. Not in an obvious ‘here is my training for’ way but more of just allowing examples of how they are able to perform at need throughout the adventure.

Despite personal bias toward the tradition, I completely agree that in the case of where we now stand, no one wants to get bogged down or excluded from having fun just because they haven’t provided proof that they can write a believable soldier. And honestly since we all pretty much went through training (and in some cases re-training) in some form or at some point of the plaza, no one here is likely to not be able to RP as a competent Ranger. Many are well versed in portraying a swordsman or an axe expert and our previous leaders here will undoubtedly also be able to bring that to the table. As multi-talented groups go, we sure are set !

I am fairly certain that the more experienced or leader-minded individuals shall, as you say become quite evident as we go along. And rank officially determined as a nice sort of finale of the RPG. Further progression and development of other skills can easily be delved into later. And I absolutely approve of us all starting out together in a group experience that will hopefully meld the unit as an interactive co-operative group, both IC and OOC.

It is a really nice inclusion that healers and military logistics etc are being officially recognised as important qualities aside from the obvious combat role. When we did the Hunt for Therion RPG way back in the old days there was quite a followers group of cooks and healers, and while I recognise that was a unique grand scale war mission, it’s nice for diversity’s sake to see it still relevant within smaller group missions. Much like the marketplace and the houses of Healing having their place in MT, it is lovely to offer RP for characters from all walks of life. And in the case of the healers, certainly there’s going to be crossover between Ranger activities and the actual Healing House activity.

I’m very grateful on the Dol Amroth call. Thanks Arnyn :smiley8:

[Arnyn]

Okay, let me and my slight tendency to OCD summarize the ideas/suggestions so far, per topic, followed by my thoughts/notes in blue:

RANKS

- The title of Ranger would be someone who's required a good/sufficient knowledge of the 4 skills (survival - combat - scouting - general skills including riding)
- bring back the old titles like Cúner to denote specialization, once the specialization is earned it can become part of the rank
- add an NCO rank
- use Sergeant as a temporary rank, per campaign someone else could be one
- rank 1 = recruit, rank 2 = ranger, rank 3 = denotes specialization, rank 4 = NCO rank like Corporal

I love using old division names to denote specialization.
So everyone's input so far could result in this:
Recruit
Ranger
Specialization rank (melee specializations: Hyandaner/Peleconner/Ehtyar, ranged specialization: Cúner, Scout specialization: could be Muinamacar? see below), Support specialization: Healer -or something fancy in quenya/Specialist -for logistics-

SPECIALTIES

- as I gather Oro and Karis have spoken through IM and she agrees with the set up from the OP.

How we figured it could be is similar to what Karis thought out, and we were thinking:

Rangers with the Scouting specialization would (obviously) also be trained in a main and secondary weapon like a sword, bow, axe etc. Can't have a scout who can't fight/defend themselves properly. So they would be versed in their choice of weaponry, like any Ranger would be.
Rangers with the Support Specialization = same thing. They would have had extensive training in their first and secondary weapon, but they specialty, their own personal elite specialty, is Support (like advanced healing=field medic). BUT we wouldn't use the name Hyandaner for a Ranger with Scout or Support spezialization.
Rangers with a Melee specialization would either choose more specifically Sword/axe/spear specialization, for which we could use the old names Hyandaner/Peleconner/Ehtyar. Their primary weapon would also be their specialization, but speaking for for example the sword, they wouldn't just know how to use their own primary weapon well, but be masters at it. Finetuned techniques, more kinds of swords and blades, etc.
Ranger with a Ranger specialization would be called Cúner if we are using the old names.

- elite specializations like riders (roquen) and muinamacar (assassins) as a higher rank above "regular" specialties

Honestly I always hated this idea of making these two elite specialties. Simply because it makes the other specializations look like they're not specializations anymore. Or worth less. The muinamacar were all about tracking, stealth - that would becovered in our Scouting Specialization. We could use the name Muinamacar for the Scouting Specialization if people want to. Scouts need to be able to be stealthy, not be seen if they don't want to be, kill an enemy unseen and quietly if they encounter one (so they can't go back and alert the enemy main force).

I am personally very OPPOSED TO elevating one or more specialization above the others for more than that reason. I'm against it because, especially in this new system, this version of Rangers is ALREADY designed to be an elite force. Meaning every single Ranger needs to end up just as elite as the other, because we have less bodies.
In that respect, having Roquen as a specialization also falls through. Every of these Rangers is gonna have to know how to ride, and ride well, and fight while on a horse. It'll be part of the basic skillsets. Basic Riding is a general skill. Fighting from a horse is a combat skill.

Does anyone follow this or am I alone in this mindset? If I'am alone of course I will defer to the majority...

- focusing a character toward stealthy and spy skill sets

This would be perfectly possible withing scouting specialization.

DIVISIONS/SQUADS/...

I sense a lot of confusion about this. Here's an idea: Let's just not go there at all. Our Rangers are one brigade, one force, which is divided as necessary for the storyline/campaign.

The vanguard (like a rear guard, the main column, etc) is in the end just a term. It would make sense the vanguard is always (at least mostly) comprised of Rangers wih a Scouting specialization. Depending on the need of the storyline/campaign, other Rangers with different specializations could be added to this -- but this brings us back to storylines/GMing.

Let's just not divide our Rangers up by anything except for Rank (which will include Specialties already anyway). One group.
((And if we're doing a city storyline where groups of four are more interesting, the commander/lieutenant will divide us up however he/she thinks would be best. In a larger campaign, same, into a vanguard and what have you.))

TRAINING

- no training, meaning recruits dive right into rp storylines instead of having to wait and complete training elsewhere
- if recruits dive into an rp storyline without training first, we would assume they've gotten some basic training at least and then later they 'complete' training elsewhere
- if recruits dive into an rp storyline without training first, we would assume they've gotten some basic training at least and pair them with a Ranger for the rp storyline who can watch over the recruit and teach along the way
- no desire to go back to the old ERC training method for some
- a desire to hold onto it for others

This is probably an area where we can't make everyone happy. :)
I really like Red's idea: for rp storylines assume that a recruit has the very basics down and pair them with a mentor for the campaign/storyline.
I think the rest of "formal training" can be figured out as we go. Turin that would mean leaving part of our 'new' handbook pretty blank for now!

- field medic specialty

Yup, this would be possible within the Support specializations, one of those could be healer/field medic/whatever fancy name we want to call it! Again, how to train for it can be decided later. Working with the HoH sounds perfect though.

[Red Daghul]

Arnyn: awesome job! That really does make it easier to think through Thanks for doing it.

I can agree with your thoughts on having a certain style being higher than another not making sense, and I would be happy with what was laid out without any above another. Changing the Muin to the scout would make a lot of sense, as well as adding logistics and field medic. I think the way you said it makes a lot of sense. I think the only question that it leaves in my head would be would we want to note somehow if someone decided to specialize in more than one area, or does that even mater? Other than that I think it is looking really awesome!

[Turin Ringhûn]

Okay, I feel it is time I make my thoughts known now too as I've been the one who has been working on the Handbook to make sure we have the actual framework "set in stone" so to speak.

In the handbook, I have the training of recruits setup as follows. Start as a recruit, make at least 4 training posts. The person is demonstrating their ability to rp, and the character is learning the four basic skills as laid out in the OP. The recruit is only getting a basic knowledge of the various weapons at their disposal as most of their learning at this point is just that, the basics. Once this is complete, they are considered a Page, and they choose a combat style of their choice (hyandaner, pelecconer, ehtyar, cuner) and a division of their choice (Scout, Melee, Ranged, Support). They make four further training posts going deeper within their combat style, and learning the roles they'll be fulfilling within the division of their choosing.

I understand not everyone likes the idea of going through the training. I myself when I was going through the ranger training years ago thought it was a bit tedious, but I learned the importance of a well thought out post. I learned the necessity of paying attention to what tasks I was given and putting forth a post that fulfilled those tasks. I won't deny, I really like @Red's idea of essentially "on the job training" going directly into the thick of things. I want to leave the training stuff in the handbook as it, in my opinion, is a good framework for getting people going if we need it in the future. As of right now, it looks like the vast majority of us are veterans who pretty much know what we're doing.

As for the ranks, as of right now, I don't really care that much. As I'm working on the handbook (and much of what I'll be saying will probably go back to this) I started off with the original from fifteen years ago or so. I really like the officer badges in there and I would like a way to retain their usage in some way.

Onto the titles. I'm in agreement with @Arnyn's thoughts. Because I've been putting a lot of work into thinking of how it all comes together for the handbook, right now, in my mind, once someone becomes a full Ranger, (I'll use my own character as an example) Mahtar Hyandaner Turin. If had an officer rank, Mahtar Hyandaner Sergeant. This denotes the Division they're in, then their specialty, then any officer rank.

Now, what they heck is a Mahtar you may be asking now. While writing up descriptions for the divisions Arnyn and Oro provided, the names of Vanguard, Melee, Ranged, Support just don't have the same punch as Hyandaner, Cuner, Pelecconer, Muinamacar, Ehtyar, and Roquen. So, because I was a Hyandaner back in the day, and Hyandaner is derived from the Quenya word for sword (Hyanda), I did some research. Mahtar is the Quenya word for Warrior, and I thought it fit well for the Melee Division. Hranga for the Ranged Division, meaning Thwart, and Tulco for the Support division. Tulco was the Quenya word for ... Support. Yeah, that one may be bland, but hey, I thought it was pretty cool.

If you were to look at the handbook link I have provided in my post above, You'll see I have laid out pretty extensive roles for the divisions (more edits to come as we work all this out further), but here is a basic run down.
Vanguard - Scouts. They do the recon for the army. (I'll be eliminating the Muin from the handbook soon and be converting them into the Scout division as Arnyn is right, what they did in the past is essentially what the scouts are set to do now)
Mahtar - Main combat division. They get right up in the enemy's face and cut them down.
Hranga - Secondary Combat division. They support the Mahtar from a distance, protect the Tulco, and if necessary, guerrila warfare.
Tulco - Support division. They are the medics, run the supply chain, engineers for siege weaponry, etc.

I think with this layout, everyone can see their roles and can better facilitate whatever madness the GM has in store for us in the campaigns they have planned for us. And also, with the combat specialization, you can come up with some interesting ways to use that in whatever division you're part of.


As an end thought, As stated earlier, I'll be converting the Muin into the the Scout division. As for the Roquen, I haven't yet figured out what to do with them. I may just split their information into the various divisions, but I don't know yet. Please review the handbook as it stands now and let me know what you think. I know further edits are to be made, but as I've told Red, Oro, and Arnyn, want to get the framework down so in case we grow, the foundation is already laid and we won't have to brainstorm then.

[Oro]

@Turin Ringhûn I am loving the Handbook update! And I really like the “squads” (Units, Divisions whatever title it ends up) to be Muin, Mahtar, Hranga, Tulco.

As for Roquen I think its best to delete them. Every ranger will know how to ride, but there wont be a standing cavalry.

And as for training, I love the on the job training idea. And i am OK with the post limits, i just dont see it personally being necessary. But that is what everyone wants than I would not fight it.

[Karis Ziranphel]

Excellent discussions. From a quick read, Iike the refining of the concepts that Oro and Arnyn have put forth.

@Turin, thank you for working on things, but I would hope this is more of a discussion instead of one person setting anything in stone that others have to follow. It would come down to us fighting it out over who is better, which we don't want. My suggestion would be for simplicity over wordy titles. And read each other's ideas. (I will go back and try to find your link later. Didn't actually see a link before, just a statement you were working on it yourself. )

[Arnyn]

Maybe we should first deal with what we want to have in order by Monday, so we can focus on just those elements for now and actually start doing the awesome cool story line and actually RP on Monday instead of in 2 weeks or so.

I think what we really need to agree on for now is the following:

• Training specifics for people's new characters could wait / still be developed while the RPG is already running, right? As long as we agree now on whether or not those new characters can join the RPG (everyone seems to be on board with that) and whether or not they need the basics of the basics before they're allowed to tag along (which I think everyone also agrees on)?

• Then as far as ranks are concerned we just need three more cool names to denote the 1) Scout spec (of which there is only one) and the 2) Healer and 3) Logistics spec (both support specs)
  Then we could have a character named 'Awesome' theoretically make the following journey through the ranks:
  Recruit Awesome
  Ranger Awesome
  Cúner Awesome
  Corporal Awesome
  Sergeant Awesome
  For now the Lieutenant and the Commander are NPCs.
  (also no Corporals or Sergeants yet)
  
  I'm wondering what people feel about all starting as Rangers at the beginning of the RPG for previously established characters? No one seemed to object so far but that is how it is suggested in the OP and I'm not sure everyone got that and really agrees? And after the inital RPG (if they were active and playing) they can all be promoted to the specialty they want?
  Or do people want to start in the specialty of their choice from the get-go?

• No one objected to the equipment suggestions? So the weapon limit is ok for all?

• And everyone is ok with armor being the player's choice as long as it's realistic? DO we want any Ranger colors? Or no color guidelines and just the rank broaches?

If we agree on the above, then we can take more time with the rest while doing the RPG already. Would that be okay?

[Burnt Toast]

@Oro Excellent, makes complete sense to me. On with the sneky snek.

@Arnyn -- This looks wonderful; thanks for putting up a review of all our conversation so far. I really like what you've laid out here.

@Turin Ringhûn Thank you for the work you're doing!

Training- 'on the job' makes a ton of sense for our current circumstances. I don't know how people are feeling about having a training grounds at all-- for if there was anyone who wanted to utilize it for training. Maybe as an option, along with on the job ranking up.

I was thinking- I can't remember if this ended up talked about here or elsewhere, of combining many of our prior army threads--

HQ
Barracks
Stables
Armoury

Would combine well, I think, part of one complex-- it's easy enough to denote where you are at the top of your post for ease of folks reading. Even a training grounds could be added onto there, as a solid addition.

As for roquen, I feel since I wasn't one and don't know of anyone's attachment, I feel a bit out of my place saying just toss it, but I do agree with the assessment that all the ra Gers would have that skill set, so I don't know where that distinction would belong. If anyone was attached to it and wanted to use it, maybe it could be justified as a somehow ... Extra specialty rider/fighter skill? Dunno.

[Pele Alarion]

*tries to jump on board*

I guess training can wait, as we don't really have newbies? But I figure for the future it would be good to have training of a kind that would be interactive and allow participation in RPGS. Don't think it would really pose a problem?

Ranks look good, me thinks. As for starting as Rangers - fine. For the sake of us moving on. I've thought of a background to explain it just to make some sort of sense for myself.

Weapons, armour -

Colours/uniform - I think something common might be cool!

Morwen, suppose all those locations do fit together. :D

As an aside, I'd love to have Training Grounds, would probably use it a plenty for individual training and what not.

[Oro]

On threads

I think 2 threads works. 1 would be the main story thread. The campaign. The other would be the Ranger Common Locations. It would have access to the training ground, the barracks, the armory ect. Any Out of main story posts could be made there. Just my two cents. I dont think we need a ton of threads. 1 for story, and 1 for not.

[Burnt Toast]

Weapons & armour thoughts look good to me.
I'm with Pele, it'd be nice to have something common. I don't think it needs to be a lot, but whether that's even just a patch/whatever for all rangers.

I think starting at ranger is great, if some people wanted to start already specialized, I wouldn't object, but I think I'll start from base ranger for whoever I bring in. Have to ponder.

But yeah, I definitely say let's get started so long as we don't have any wild objections. Seems like we've got a fairly basic solid structure hammered out here, and we can keep tweaking

Putting ourselves in action might even help clarify some of our thoughts!

If we end up wanting those threads combined that I mentioned, I'm happy to take into he digging and consolidating of those threads and putting it up. I'd love to have some of those army based areas up to pop in and out of. Also fine if someone else wanted to.

Let me know what y'all think of those area combos.

EDIT: Simul @Oro . I'm with you on that- I see--

Ranger Common Areas (or whatever)

HQ
Barracks
Stables
Armoury
Training Grounds

[Ercassie]

As far as training grounds go, I feel like our previous highly structured policy was put in place when the kingdom was inundated with ten year old Aragorn enthusiasts who had come straight from seeing the films and thought waving a sword around in a godmodey fashion made them a credible soldier. Obviously that isn’t the case here. And unless this site is again inundated by the aforementioned headache of all GMs, then we could easily make do with a training grounds being a part of the combined hq/barracks/stable/armoury/etc. That would cater well enough for anyone who wants to progress/develop their skills IC or simply have a fun cross training session with a colleague.

The equipment seems very fair although perhaps more notable armour etc could be added as part of an IC announcement/small ceremony when a character is promoted to a notable new rank, etc. I do agree that some sort of common feature would add to the team feel, but uniform might be largely dependent on the mission being undertaken, and what sort of apparel the environment demands.

I support the move to incorporate much of what the Muinamacar were into what the Scouts shall now be. As for names, I did have a quick look for Quenyan versions and could only find the equivalent for Healer which would be Envinyatar. But then, assuming the duality with the healers in the Houses of Healing thread, perhaps some sort of mutual name to tie in with whatever sort of rank they are calling the city healers ?

Where it comes to the Roquen, I admit it’s advantageous for soldiers to be able to handle themselves on horseback, but a specific cavalry unit always felt like we were stealing from the Rohirric culture really. And I feel Gondor should be less about cavalry, so we can better appreciate our allies in the West, whose lands are far more suited to a cavalry unit than is the bulk of Gondor anyway.

[Pele Alarion]

As for the uniform, I sort of like the version developed by Karis, considering that the Rangers would mostly work on borders (forests and stuff?):

Uniform: Although the formal uniform consists of a black surcoat emblazoned with the white tree, and a winged helm similar to the Tower Guard, the regular fighting attire is quite different. Similar to the Rangers, those of the Vanguard are clad in hardened leather armor with scant chain. Shirts and trousers were of dark gray, with tunics the green of the woodland hills. Cloaks were the green-gray of heather, and soldiers were issued a set consisting of a lightweight summer cloak and a heavy woolen one for winter.

[Burnt Toast]

I like that. I think formal uniforms wouldn't be used much in our context, but it's good to know. Maybe dress up for nice occasions? (if I can get my characters to bathe ...) I'd be about everyone 'receiving' some basic uniform sets in nature based colors. I like the descriptions from Karis' post. And it might be the kind of thing that wouldn't be a formal requirement to wear, but we might as well give our soldiers something, in case they don't have access to lots of money and resources. Seems useful as a starting point?

Part of me still has some interest in a patch or broach or something, not only for commanding officers -- whatever that is could be a little fancier/more complex, or otherwise differentiated. But just some symbol that we belong to the group- to show other rangers? Dunno.

[Turin Ringhûn]

Alright. Now to address some things that I think confused a couple people and bring up something that does not have to be fixed immediately.

First off, I'm grateful that you guys are liking how the handbook is so far. In my last post, I was scared I would come off prissy about the handbook, but I wanted to make it known why I was doing all the work. So that if this isn't just a big nostalgia fest and in a couple weeks things don't die down and we even grow, we have a framework to do so with. I have a feeling that some people feared I was doing my own thing in the handbook. I have been essentially summarizing what everyone had been inputting thus far, then asking for feedback to tweak it and make it flow better. I hope that makes sense.

And because Arnyn had asked me to clarify something from my last post about the divisional setup, whether or not I meant it could only be those divisions working separately, or could work together in small groups. In that post, I just wanted to identify what the separate divisions main roles are in large scale combat. I had put together some roles for the divisions as I understood them to be based on the initial descriptions that were given. I'd asked both Arnyn and Oro to review my initial descriptions, before I did a full on overhaul.
Again, what I put forward doesn’t mean can’t have people from each division working as a team in a small group. I was joking with Red the other day saying when thinking about the small teams, I thought of the small teams from the anime/manga Naruto (have a medic and combat people, and maybe someone who specialized in stealth all together). As I said in my previous post, “I think with this layout, everyone can see their roles and can better facilitate whatever madness the GM has in store for us ...” For “large” campaign situations, can be split up by division. For small things, can be grouped up in any manner. Sorry if I didn’t make much sense earlier, and I hope this cleared that up. I can see it working in both situations.

I agree with having a joint thread for the Ranger Common Areas. We can designate where we are at the top of the post like we do elsewhere.

As for titles, after after further discussion with Arnyn, the example I gave in my previous post is a bit of a mouthful, so can follow like Arnyn has in her post:
Recruit Awesome (self explanatory)
Ranger Awesome (Ranger who has completed the 4 basic skills)
Cuner/Hyandaner/Pelecconer/Ehtyar Awesome (Ranger who has finished their specialized training)
The officer ranks are easy to follow too.

This leads me to the item that I said at the beginning doesn't have to be taken care of now. In the handbook, we have all those awesome badges for the Hyandaner cuner etc. since we’re going to have those divisional roles, should there be some kind of badge / token something for that? Pele had found that really awesome medical badge (can see it in city hall). But there is nothing for anything else. The only ones I see are the original division badges, the officer clasps/badges. Then I remember there was one for the training grounds / basic training office. It’d be nice to be able to distinguish whatever division. After discussing this with Arnyn, Oro, and Karis, none of us have the artsy skills to make any badges/clasps/whatever for them. As of right now, I think we can just identify what division we’re associated with at the top of our posts. When we find someone who has those artsy skills, they can make something.
Earning the Hyandaner badge (or any other old divisional badge) felt like a great honor after putting in all the work. Having something similar for the Muin, Mahtar, etc would be nice. I did have an idea for the interim, maybe color code the current Hyandaner etc badges for the divisions? They’re black, so it should be simple enough to to change that to something else for whichever division chosen. Oro said this about the color coded: It could work but it might also make them look weird. No idea, if you can do it or get someone to do it post and see how people like it. I’d have to see it. Arnyn agreed with Oro’s assessment.

For the most part, I’m wanting to say; other than signatures, the main time they were used was special occasions, (promotions, award ceremonies) and the like. But like I said earlier, earning the Hyandaner badge (or any other old divisional badge) felt like a great honor after putting in all the work. Having something similar for the new divisions would be nice.

[Oro]

Hey everyone!

It looks like the 4th age is going to win for what age people want to RP in. Just to give you all a heads up.

As that is the case, I will start working on the first main campaign thread. If someone else wants to work on the general RP thread with all the locations I would appreciate it. @Mor Toast had volunteered i think.

I think we have agreed on ranks.

As for basic equipment, I think we allow people leeway as long as they fit a basic ranger look. We can issue “Official” uniforms for occasions and for those who dont have gear. And keep the limitations on gear realistic. Just my 2 cents.

[Karis Ziranphel]

Turin was gracious enough to allow me a whack at the the Ranger Guide. For clarity, I copied what he had and am calling my document the "new" Ranger Guide. I've basically taken an axe to it but there is far to go to incorporate the suggestions that we have thus far come up with. I have sent a few people editing ability. If you like writing and organization, I am happy to include you as editor. The following link is a view only copy, but it will reflect any changes and suggestions made: https://drive.google.com/file/d/101CzN3 ... sp=sharing

A question, I may have more later: Do people still want to include things like the Imladris Convention and all the Honors/Awards that were created at one point in time or may I take that out? (We still have access to the historical documents. I just don't know that they need to be in this document.)

[Burnt Toast]

@Oro Yup. I've started some digging, and will happily put it together. Sounds good!

[Red Daghul]

SO.... using my limited, very limited art skills I came up with some badge ideas for the different divisions. Basically each specialization would use their old badges with the color code of the Division that they chose. I can change shades and colors, but figured we would let everyone weigh in on them as well.

Hyandaner Vanguard (Muin?):


Hyandaner Mahtar:


Hyandaner Hranga:
1.

2.

Hyandaner Tulco:


These are kinda the idea, each style would get their own badge with the colors. If you see any thing I can change or improve let me know. Anyways I dont think I am forgetting anything.... so yep bam! badges hahaha

[Pele Alarion]

Turin, the healer badge is that of the Master Healer (Heru Envinyatar), though I don't think there were any for 'usual' healers? I've pretty much treasured it and kept it safe. :smiley10:

Really looking forward to everything starting!

[Arnyn]

Mor Toast, yes slap it all into one thread! Boom! Haha!

Ercassie, it did feel like stealing from Rohan a little, didn't it? I think that's another reason to let the Roquen go. Everyone knows/has to learn how to ride. Tada! lol

Thank you, Turin, for looking ahead with the handbook. Thanks for the clarification (and I love Naruto).

Yay for ranks!

Badges seem great fun for promotions and formal occasions, I remember I thought using them for that was pretty fun! A big thanks to Turin and Red for taking a look at that.
Just to clarify (I checked with Turin): with these badges Turin and Red are using the 'hyandaner' part as a way to refer to the Ranger's primary weapon (sword) and not in reference to specialization (because the only Hyandaner specialization would be in the Mahtar). and this way we wouldn't need a separate healer badge actually. A healer with a sword as their main weapon would use the yellow bordered badge with their primary weapon on it.

[Turin Ringhûn]

To give a bit more background on the badges, the discussion I had with Arnyn, Karis, and Oro, before Red offered to make what he provided above, was essentially what I had in my last post. I mentioned about the color coding idea I had as it seems to be the easiest route to go. It was a quick and simple way to designate the weapon specialization and then what division would be part of.

As for making a brand new badge for each division and not changing colors on the combat badges, here is what I had in mind as a possible first pass.
The scout division, the symbol that comes to mind is a hooded figure,
The combat, something like the Ranger Reserve badge seen in the Ranger Handbook in the Clasps of Office Section.
The ranged division, I have no idea.
The support, it’d be interesting if could have multiple symbols (medic symbol, maybe a siege weapon, and a wagon or something). But that may be too jumbled

But then that involves the probable great amount of work in putting all of that together. And then having multiple badges (one for weapon specialty and then one for the division), which I'm sure some people wouldn't mind. But hey, if someone wants to try it out, have at it.


And now onto the handbook. I feel like I'm probably driving people crazy for talking about it so much. I was talking to Arnyn, Karis, and Oro about it, the flow, and what further edits (clean up) needed to be done. Thus, Karis' post above about the "New Handbook". Just trying to clean it up and make sure it fits with the new Rangers. After all, I had started with the handbook from about 15 years ago, then started moving things around, cleaned up the layout of the code of conduct, and updated the Hyandaner, Cuner, etc. sections, added the new division sections, and tweaked things based on the discussions here. There are many things that are no longer relevant that I left intact. I wanted fresh eyes to look at the handbook so it is correct to what we need and we shouldn't need to touch it again.

[Karis Ziranphel]

So...there is much work yet to do, but after talking with everyone here is my editing of the Intro to the Guide to reflect my understanding of how this could function based on these discussions. Feedback is welcome, but I could see this working for RP. Posting so you don't have to follow links:

The Rangers of today are not the Rangers of the North or the Rangers of Ithilien. They are not the Tower Guard of Minas Tirith from the works of Tolkien. What they are is an organization formed in the Fourth Age based loosely on these contingents. They are also not the same ERC from years ago.
They are Gondor's Elite, simply. They are the best of the best, specializing in military roles. The Organization has Two main combat speciality roles, Ranged and Melee Combat, in addition to which are two supplemental speciality roles, Scouting and Support. Specific weapon specializations retain names from the old Divisions of the Ranger Corps.
Ehtyar are the Spearmen of Gondor. Armed with both tall spears and short javelins, their specialty is fighting against swordsmen and cavalry. Polearms are their livelihood, yet they also carry shortswords.
Hyandaner are the Swordsmen of Gondor. Specializing in everything edged that doesn’t bear a pole, from shortswords to longswords or great two-handed blades, these men and women are most dangerous in close-up fighting.
Peleconner are the Axemen of Gondor. Stalwart in battle, they are armed with a variety of axes, from tall spiked walking axes or double-bladed war axes, to smaller hand and throwing axes. Their weapons are used to grab shields and cleave helms. Invaluable in close melee fighting as well as larger brawls where they can swing freely.
Cúner are the Archers of Gondor. Like their brethren, the Rangers of Ithilien, these archers specialize in striking the enemy from a distance. The longbow is highly favored, but many also choose the recurve for its compact power. They carry short or longswords for close-in fighting depending on their preference. Secondary specialties are also sought after, as they have a high value for a small unit that has such a broad array of duties, and spare time is spent training in these areas as well. From wielding a secondary weapon to map reading, tracking, herb-lore, wood-lore, surveying, and sailing, these specialties are diverse and valuable.
Scouts are the eyes and ears of the Rangers. While they may wield axe, sword, spear, or bow, their speciality is tracking, identifying, and harassing the enemy far in advance of the unit, so as to bring accurate information to Rangers in the field. Stealth and an eye for detail is highly prized.
Support specialists are the guardians of the Ranger’s souls. Just as skilled in weapons as the rest of the unit, these specialists focus on perfecting skills that ensure healing of wounds, that food is available, equipment in the best of repair, and accurate logs are written.
Each of these specialists are assigned to combat roles as described earlier, and retain those names even if situations call for them to be utilized in a different role for a given skirmish.
The Melee Combat role, or Mahtar, is generally filled by specialists from the Peleconner, Ehtyar and Cúner specialities.
The Ranged Combat role, or Hranga, is generally filled by specialists from the Cúner, although some javelin throwing Ehtyar occasionally choose this.
The Scouting role, or Vanguard, is as the name suggests, filled by Scout specialists.
The Support role, or Tulco, is filled by Support specialists, from field medics to scribes and cooks.
A career in the Rangers is as challenging as it is rewarding.


We retain the title of 'Ranger' because as Elite servants of the forces of the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor, we often are dispatched as scouts, or in patrols, or on missions in what was formerly territory behind enemy lines. There are other armies and militias. We are the Rangers of the King. We employ many of the same tactics that were so successful in the forests of Ithilien during the War of the Ring. Sauron has been destroyed and no longer remains in Middle earth, yet his legacy lives on. The Land of Shadow is still rife with the minions of Mordor and fell creatures spawned by the Dark Lord, and there are rumors of unrest in the lands of Umbar and Rhun. The machinations and evil ambitions of our ancient nemesis remain in play despite Sauron’s fall, and it is all we can do to stand between such corruption and the rest of the realms. Dare you join our ranks and help us to repel them?

[Burnt Toast]

Mor Toast, yes slap it all into one thread! Boom! Haha!

Woo! Sounds great. I am still pulling some old materials and the will start rebuilding within the next day or so. I will endeavour to have it up as soon as I can!

I liked what Findy did with colour coding locations in HoH; contemplating integrating that idea.

[Arnyn]

More like this (and I ran this by Karis and Turin) and props to Karis for finding some new names for the support and scout spec:


The Rangers of today are not the Rangers of the North or the Rangers of Ithilien. They are not the Tower Guard of Minas Tirith from the works of Tolkien. What they are is an organization formed in the Fourth Age based loosely on these contingents. (They are also not the same ERC from years ago.)

They are the best of the best, specializing in military roles. The Organization has two main combat speciality roles, Ranged and Melee Combat, and two other speciality roles, Scouting and Support.
Specific weapon specializations retain the names from the old Divisions of the Ranger Corps, but those weapon specializations are no longer split into separate divisions.

Ehtyar is the spear specialization. Armed with both tall spears and short javelins, these Rangers specialize in fighting against swordsmen and cavalry. Polearms are their livelihood, yet they also carry shortswords.

Hyandaner is the sword specialization. Specializing in everything edged that doesn’t bear a pole, from shortswords to longswords or great two-handed blades, these men and women are most dangerous in close-up fighting.

Peleconner is the axe specialization. These Rangers specialize in a variety of axes, from tall spiked walking axes or double-bladed war axes, to smaller hand and throwing axes. Their weapons are used to grab shields and cleave helms. Invaluable in close melee fighting as well as larger brawls where they can swing freely.

Cúner is the bow specialization. Like their brethren, the Rangers of Ithilien, these archers specialize in striking the enemy from a distance. The longbow is highly favored, but many also choose the recurve for its compact power. They carry short or longswords for close-in fighting depending on their preference.

Tirdinen is the scouting specialization. These Rangers are our eyes and ears. While they may wield axe, sword, spear, or bow, their speciality is tracking, identifying, and harassing the enemy far in advance of the unit, so as to bring accurate information to Rangers in the field. Stealth and an eye for detail is highly prized.

Yantyar is the support specialization. Support specialists are the guardians of the Ranger’s souls. They fight with the rest of the unit, but focus on perfecting skills that ensure the healing of wounds, the availability of food, the maintenance of equipment, and the keeping of accurate logs.

Choosing one specialization does not mean additional skills are no longer sought after, as they have a high value for a small unit that has such a broad array of duties, and spare time is still spent training in these areas as well. From wielding a secondary weapon to map reading, tracking, herb-lore, wood-lore, surveying, and sailing, additional skills are diverse and valuable.


Each of these specialists are assigned to roles within the unit as described earlier, even if situations call for them to be utilized in a different role for a given skirmish.
The Melee Combat role, which can be referred to as the Mahtar, is generally filled by the Peleconner, Ehtyar and Hyandaner specialists.
The Ranged Combat role, or Hranga, is generally filled by the Cúner specialists, although some javelin throwing Ehtyar occasionally choose this.
The Scouting role, or Vanguard, is filled with Tirdinen specialists.
The Support role, or Tulco, is filled by Yantyar specialists, from field medics to scribes and cooks.
A career in the Rangers is as challenging as it is rewarding.


We retain the title of 'Ranger' because as Elite servants of the forces of the Reunited Kingdom of Gondor and Arnor, we often are dispatched in patrols, or on missions in what was formerly territory behind enemy lines. There are other forces and militias located in other areas of Gondor, but we are the Rangers of the King. Sauron has been destroyed and no longer remains in Middle earth, yet his legacy lives on. The Land of Shadow is still rife with the minions of Mordor and fell creatures spawned by the Dark Lord, and there are rumors of unrest in the lands of Umbar and Rhun. The machinations and evil ambitions of our ancient nemesis remain in play despite Sauron’s fall, and it is all we can do to stand between such corruption and the rest of the realms. Dare you join our ranks and help us to repel them?

[Oro]

Everyone, I think we have a good idea for where to start. With an age picked out, and a general idea of our RP Army I think I will begin our quest tomorrow. Arnyn and I will work on the opening post and should have one up tomorrow sometime. Thanks for your patience, hopefully we all have a ton of fun. IF we dont you can slap me later. Let me go start working on it!

[Burnt Toast]

Thanks for all the work, team! This is coming together so well.

I'm working in getting the army locations thread up soon; @Arnyn will be my second set of eyes :). My plan is to get it up by Thursday, or Friday at the latest.

I'm excited for our first army adventure of the Nu Plaza to begin!

[Arnyn]

source: pokemon.com

[Oro]

To all it may concern,

Join This Thead

RP your tails off and have lots of fun! Thats an order. IF i can do that.

[Burnt Toast]

All right, O impatient one (@Arnyn), the thread is done! My tired eyes can stare at it no more, so please do let me know if you notice inconsistencies or typos.

@Oro Looks great! I'm so excited to join in!

[Karis Ziranphel]

Very nice work on the Ranger Commons thread Mor Toast!
Oro & Arnyn - Thanks for your ideas and work in restarting all this. I look forward to the RP!

[Moriel]

@Oro @Arnyn Have you decided exactly what year we're in, for those of us who are picky about our character bios?

[Turin Ringhûn]

No, Moriel. Don’t go there. I’m pretty picky about my back story, and if I know what year it is now, it’ll likely throw off what I’m imagining now. (Me being silly)

But in all seriousness, it would be nice to know. But like I said in my silliness, it will likely throw off what age I’m setting Turin at right now.

[Arnyn]

Hey Moriel

No, no exact year chosen yet. It's hard since we will have characters with a fourth age past and with a third age past, characters with only a past in the third age and with only a past in the fourth age. And I would like for anyone to be able to continue with any character they want, at whatever age they want... That would still be possibly by setting a year, though, I suppose...

Spitballing here, we'd need a few years into the Fourth Age at least, but not too many yet either. FA 5? Or what was it back in the day? 7?