Ranger Headquarters II (OOC)

[Rillewen]

Lol I had assumed it was on the 6th but i went by what the OP says :P But that is a good point to consider

[Pele Alarion]

I kind of thought that I had fixed it in the OP to say 6th, but seems that it only remained in my head, so I thought I'd ask again before I do any changes.

[Rillewen]

I can alter my post if I need to, I could have a guard escort him up to the entrance and then leave him.. assuming he'll find his way. i mean how do you get lost when the door's right in front of you?

[Ercassie]

I recall getting confused by this when I was RPing Nal’s journey from the barracks to houses of healing for his training. And there was for a while the hilarious proposal that Beren was going to try and carry a fully armoured, but fainted, Isys up from the first circle HQ after the kings address to the healers on the sixth circle. The latter of course never actually came to anything but it was another example of this same confusion. When we rp’d slipping down icy circles to meet Faramir for that mission we were acting as though barracks were on Sixth circle again.

I think some clarification or at least a decision made would be useful. I don’t know what/why we decided in the previous conversations about it. There seem to be reasons for and against both locations. But clearly it’s something that still needs to be sorted.

[Pele Alarion]

I think the consensus was for the 6th circle at the time, but not sure...

I suppose it would be more convenient if we consider that these Rangers are a specific unit/company to do the King's bidding for specific tasks, etc. rather than a regular army/city guards. It would not do to send messengers all the way down with some order or other. I would also assume that the 1st circle would perfect for city guards who take care of the safety within the city, man the gates, etc.

*ponders* But at least it should be settled, yes. And this time I will make sure the OP has it correctly.

[Arnyn]

The ERC Rangers (first Plaza, FA) were located in the First Circle. The Army (TA plaza) had everything up on the 6th.
The OP went back to the first circle because the Rangers were "revived" albeit differently.

That is how we got here
Doesn't matter to me either way, but yes I would like to know how the hammer ends up dropping!

[The Good Hunter]

Quick (probably dumb) question: should Caladcyll show up in the Ranger Commons even though I'm doing the mini RPG? I'm guessing I should but, being me, am being rather lazy about the whole thing.

[Karis Ziranphel]

@Sorceress Yes. As you may notice, Pele and the rest are also reporting in despite also being in the RPG. RPG timeframe doesn't necessarily coincide with time in the HQ. I also like things neat and orderly, but this happens frequently.

Musings on the matter of the Headquarters: although the first circle location was already established back in 2002 when I joined, I always believed the reasoning was connected to Beregond's bringing Pippin to the Third Company of the Citadel's storehouse/barracks, which I think was also in the first circle. (I will have to check) But perhaps it was just a location that made more sense to some due to easier access to the Pelennor. We moved it to the Sixth when the DA was established because it made sense to place it near the Houses of Healing and closer to the seat of government as such. I believe that according to the books there are barracks within the Citadel, so that could be another possible location, although that is more fitting for an elite force than a new recruit training location.

[Nessa Saelind]

May I just slide in here to ask: when the rangers finally decide on which level the Ranger HQ is would that decision need to be added anywhere else like the MT Free RP thread, or are you, fine folks, alright if the final decision is posted in here and other ranger related threads? So that everyone who for RP reasons needs the info can find it here and use it wherever they need. Asking because I'm a Nosy Parkins obvs. I mean you know me by now

[Pele Alarion]

Ha, @Nessa Saelind , it would probably be good to reflect it in free RP as different locations in different places caused the confusion.

And who is gonna decide? Should we vote?

[Arnyn]

Well other than needing a decision, does it matter to anyone here where it ends up being? (This is a genuine question, not a snark ) if so, speak now or forever hold your peace?

[Romeran]

Two questions.

First, are rangers allowed to have dogs? Romeran would like to have a dog I understand if it's not permitted or like everyone would want one.

Second, I found the ranger skills on the first page provided by @Ercassie and I started filling in some details on the skills for my training posts for Romeran. Does this look reasonable? Did I miss anything obvious? Most of these are "basic" since all rangers are expected to possess these skills but like a Tirdinen would clearly possess more advanced scouting and tracking skills. I got this from a combination of my SAS survival handbook as well as the handbooks for a few special forces (Army rangers & SAS).

Rangers would all need to possess 4 different skill sets, regardless of their chosen main weapon or specialty:

1. Scouting skills:
   • Scanning. A technique used to quickly survey an area for non obvious information (such as hiding individuals), also important for being on watch
   • Movement: stealth, speed, endurance, organizing a patrol
   • Estimating distances
   • Gathering information:
     • S: Size, the number of people (or otherwise) being observed
     • A: Activity, what the individuals are engaged in
     • L: Location, the place where the quarry is
     • U: Unit, what type of individuals, e.g. army/civilian
     • T: Time, how long were they engaged in activity, how long ago was it
     • E: Equipment, what supplies and equipment they are carrying
   • Tracking:
     • Recognizing types of footprints
     • Estimating number of individuals based on footprints
     • Estimating time since the footprints were made
     • Identifying the direction and estimating speed of travel
   • Navigation (night andy day, map reading)
   • Ranger hand signals
2. Survival skills:
   • Fire: making a fire with flint and steel and without flint and steel. Creating char cloth.
   • Building shelters: both with oilcloth/waxed cloth tarp/cloak and with minimal supplies
   • Woodcraft: chopping lumber with both a small axe and batoning with a knife, making feather sticks and tinder, basic wood carving for tools such as bowls or spoons.
   • Water: identifying water sources, sanitizing water
   • Food: identifying food sources, basic trapping, fishing, basic hunting (including both spear and bow), skinning/gutting
   • First aid: staunch & bind a wound, splint a broken limb, sling an injured arm, deal with non-life threatening allergenics like poison ivy
   • Knots: know how to tie essential survival knots
3. Combat skills:
   • Basic unarmed combat including basic grappling (close quarters combat)
   • Basic knife combat (close quarters combat)
   • Basic sword combat (melee combat)
   • Basic archery (ranged combat)
4. General skills:
   • Horseback riding
   • Canoeing (individual and in a group)
   • Swimming
   • Climbing, belaying & rappelling
   • Blade sharpening
   • Basic field repairs for all of the ranger’s gear
   • Physical fitness

[Pele Alarion]

@Romeran I have a whole lot of training handbooks collected, should sort through it and see what can be used, perhaps something you would want too. :)

[Romeran]

@Pele Alarion Yeah I'd love to look through them! I'm just looking for inspiration for Romeran's training, not trying to impose this on anyone else

Also I think this Q probably got lost in my skills rambling:

Are rangers allowed to have dogs? Romeran would like to have a dog I understand if it's not permitted or like everyone would want one.

[Ercassie]

I may have provided the skills summary above @Romeran but I can’t take any credit for it. It was copy/pasted from the original HQ thread. Just wanted to say that.

As for dogs, Nal has already been hiding one in his barracks room for a while now. But she was a plot line planned out with a member who is now inactive. So if dogs are not allowed, he will have to ‘gift’ her bundle of joy to go live with his dad. @Pele Alarion did once joke about having to train the dog as well as the ranger … but I’ll leave any more to the people in charge to say.

[Romeran]

Oh nice @Ercassie I wasn't positive but I saw you had posted it

That's fun about Nal, if dogs are allowed then Romeran would get one and maybe they could hang out I'd actually be interested in writing about Romeran (and others if interested) basically training the dog to be able to do ranger-y things, like tracking and such, plus just companionship

[Arnyn]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/101C ... ue&sd=true can be a useful tool.

What looks good now is:
ranger intro
ranger training
ranger skills
officer structure

Most of the other stuff still needs an update at best or overhaul at worst.
Also the whole "Ranger Roles" business isn't something we have used as such. Just have too few people for this to be a thing - at all. I would like to get rid of the idea that a specialization is automatically part of one specific role. But the info on the roles do contain some interesting tidbits, despite us not having used the roles so far.

[Romeran]

Thanks @Arnyn there's actually a ton of overlap between Pages 7 - 11 and what I listed above which I suppose shouldn't be that surprising, I think I got everything on the ranger handbook. I was unable to get links to most of the handbook on the wayback machine so thanks for showing this to me. Looks like there's a wealth of information here to read!

Most of the other stuff still needs an update at best or overhaul at worst.

Let me know if I can help here, I enjoy this sort of thing probably more than I should...

Also the whole "Ranger Roles" business isn't something we have used as such. Just have too few people for this to be a thing - at all. I would like to get rid of the idea that a specialization is automatically part of one specific role. But the info on the roles do contain some interesting tidbits, despite us not having used the roles so far.

Yeah with the considerably smaller roster it seems like it's not as much of a useful distinction anymore. Also if we're down to 1 Commander (which seems to also be called Captain in this document) and 1 Lieutenant we may want to consider re-ranking Lieutenant Brian (the guy in charge of the barracks) as a Sgt? Although this is probably massively nit-picky at best . I think we have roughly 11 (by the number of unique names I counted in the Ranger Commons summons by Aragorn) active rangers. One of them is the Cdr, one of them is the Lt. that leaves 9. Assuming we keep the Sgt & Cpl ranks we'd have room for 1-2 of each leaving 5-7 rangers + recruits (+specialized if we include that).

aaaand I should probably stop.....

[Arnyn]

Pele and I spoke on the commander thing and we'll just change it to captain. Makes more sense in the end. If she wants to change it back at some point, she could do that too!

I will say that having the ranks available doesn't mean we have to fill them all! With give or take 10 people we could make do with just one officer. If Pele wants someone else/more people, she can appoint them as she chooses. ^^
I'm gonna let her rule about the possible demotion of Lt Brian! And Sergeant Pete! By the Valar, what is your problem with our poor npc's!

[Romeran]

I will say that having the ranks available doesn't mean we have to fill them all! With give or take 10 people we could make do with just one officer. If Pele wants someone else/more people, she can appoint them as she chooses. ^^

Completely agree! I was just kind of rambling thinking about it

By the Valar, what is your problem with our poor npc's!

Gotta keep them in their place

[Arnyn]

A bit of a minionesque treat, spotted I have!

*whispers to Pele* keep an eye on this one, he uses aquaman's image but he might spit fire

[Winddancer]

Did someone say spit fire??

[Pele Alarion]

Haha, wait for me, you guys. I am not a high-speed train. Got a friend visiting to tend to, but will come by to take a proper look at whatever have ya got.

[Karis Ziranphel]

No rush. It has been paused for over a year. Enjoy the visit with your friend!

[Romeran]

You can ignore my list above as it's covered by the Google doc that @Arnyn linked.

I did take a wee bit of initiative and made a copy: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16uY ... ue&sd=true

All I've done:

• Make the text uniform size and font
• Fixed some spacing and titles so that the TOC looks nice.
• Added the Yantyar badge in its section
• Following the comments on the other doc, I deleted material when it was explicitly redundant (i.e. existed as a copy/paste in multiple places in the doc.)
• Following the comments I moved generic non specialization specific training information into the ranger skills section under the appropriate skill (which I turned into sub-headings to remove the unnecessary bullet indent level)
• Removed the Roles as suggested by @Arnyn
• Cleaned up some of the leftover Muinamacar stuff

I didn't actually delete anything (unless it was a straight up copy/paste job) but instead moved it to a REMOVED CONTENT section.

I have not made any edits to any of the content (although I think an editorial pass would be greatly beneficial). Things which I think could be done to improve but would require writing or editing content (rather than simply moving and formatting which is all I've done):

• The four main skills (scouting, survival, combat, general) could use small intro texts (combat already has this)
• The ranger specializations should be uniform in their content subsections. Some specializations have a lot of content and others very little.
• Ranger weapons has a lot of weapons (especially swords and polearms) many of which aren't very Middle-earth appropriate (as noted by the commenter) this could use a pass to simplify content. Additionally, the material on axes is wrong in places (weight of the axes)
• Ranger armor needs some work, there are a few contradictory statements (Ehtyar are lightly armored in some parts of the text but heavily armored elsewhere) and really armor is more context dependent (which is explained in some parts of the text) rather than specialization dependent (you wouldn't wear chainmail on a stealth mission regardless of your chosen specialization).
• In general we might want to make the arms & armor section less an exhaustive list of all "mediaeval" arms and armor and more middle-earth specific ones and better still ranger used (or at least plausible).
• An editorial pass to make sure the content is consistent and reads nicely

This requires more effort than the really simple stuff I did mostly to make it slightly more organized/consistent. Is it worth going through this effort? I'm a total nerd for this sort of thing so I'd quite happily spend the time to do it but my guess is probably no one really cares

[Winddancer]

I love doing stuff like that too @Romeran :D

[Arnyn]

Romeran, great enthusiasm! XD
Just a thought: Last time we had several copies in a matter of hours and everyone had put in work on similar sections with different results, and then it became about choosing 1 over the other... awkward. Give Pele a sec and see what she says?

[Romeran]

Romeran, great enthusiasm! XD
Just a thought: Last time we had several copies in a matter of hours and everyone had put in work on similar sections with different results, and then it became about choosing 1 over the other... awkward. Give Pele a sec and see what she says?

Yeah I'm not about to do any real changes until then. I mostly just did some re-arranging because it was bugging me as I was reading it like I said, I didn't actually change anything I just organized it a little.

[Pele Alarion]

A few thoughts after a brief moment of thinking (I'd need much more time to read and think properly):

1) Nothing has been said this far about the location of HQ, so I'll just put it on the 6th circle since it would make sense with Rangers being a small unit and all.

2) To be honest, I would not place too much emphasis on Ranger guide/handbook. While it would be a nice feature to have at hand, in my opinion it is more important to focus on what is important to ensure regular RP. All the handbooks in the world would help nothing if there are no active Rangers. There were moments when I thought the whole thing will die, as there were just a couple of us just getting by. So I'd still want to emphasise that the most focus should be on RP, with minimum structure clarified, which there is, for the most part. Everything else is an extra luxury.

3) Not much to say on the specifics of the 'book' yet; now, excuse me, but must write at least one RP post.

[Romeran]

Well said and I definitely agree that the focus should be on RP. I’m just the sort to get distracted easily by this sort of thing

[Pele Alarion]

Romeran, you make sure to keep up that posting or else... I'll think of consequences.

[Karis Ziranphel]

I agree that RP is the most important piece rather than a book, although having something we can eventually agree on as a resource for recruits is useful. (Starting the initial RPG heralded the end of the first round of editing in 2020) My hope has been to completely rewrite and simplify, but the process has been slow. As you know the ERC was a large and unwieldy organization. Having a slimmed down structure is great but takes more editing. Believe it or not the original document that I started with was four times as long, and I agree it needs further rewriting and cutting. Each former division seemed to be in charge of recruiting members to their cause and included anything deemed relevant by various leaders over the years. It has been the brainchild of many, which makes it more difficult to edit it into a cohesive form. Romeran, if you would like to be added as an editor to the document version Arnyn shared I am happy to add you, but will need your contact info. Otherwise we end up with many different versions all over the place.

[Ercassie]

That's fun about Nal, if dogs are allowed then Romeran would get one and maybe they could hang out I'd actually be interested in writing about Romeran (and others if interested) basically training the dog to be able to do ranger-y things, like tracking and such, plus just companionship

@Romeran, I am fairly sure that even if dogs are outlawed from the barracks, which to be fair, makes some sense from an ordered point of view; there is nothing from stopping our Ranger characters from embarking on training and tracking with dogs which they may house or otherwise encounter privately. There are bound to be certain missions etc where such animals would be more hindrance than a help, and that must be considered. As much as the fact that Minas Tirith was a walled city, and less likely to cater to such a menagerie of animals in general than say Gondorian farmlands etc. Just thinking though, that whatever the general verdict is on your question, there may still be ways to incorporate RP with an animal companion etc around the kingdom and I look forward to reading/joining in with that possibility.

@Pele Alarion, for a decision on the location issue ! If the barracks RP thread shall now state our location as being in the same circle as the northern fiefdoms thread states it is, then we are definitely likely to be less confused. Even if the Northern fiefdoms OP refers to it as army barracks. Clearly the new fourth age Rangers have usurped the old third age army barracks

With that in mind, and relating to the question put forward about the barracks NPCs, Pete and Bryan, I might venture we consider them both Yantyar rather than have them hold a specifically sounding officer rank. As Yantyar would clearly be the specialisation that would cater to catering and lodgings and the like under the new regime. What do you think, for a compromise there ? There again, for all we know, these distinguished NPC gentlemen could be well decorated veterans of previously more active duty, who still hold a penchant for command, even if they are respectively too mature now to command other than a kitchen or an entire housing establishment ! It might also open up the doors for potential inspiration/aides in RP for Yantyar Rangers/prospects as well, overseen by these now legendary staple NPCs of the kingdom.

I have no comment on the handbook save to say that it will be surely a good reference guide, yes, once it is completed. At present there are so many opinions, and so many variants, and have been ever since we started discussing it on Nuplaza, that it only serves to confuse more than educate any members who may try to look to it for guidance and inspiration. To have absolutely everyone weighing in on it is likely to extend the debating and editing process even further, potentially indefinitely. So I personally look forward to the assumed end product but, with the utmost respect, noone wants me also to comment on any of the constant drafts which keep being proposed until one is finally decided upon. Thank you very much though to those who do have the time and inclination to put such hard work in attending to that project. I am sure it will be worth the wait.

[Rillewen]

That's fun about Nal, if dogs are allowed then Romeran would get one and maybe they could hang out I'd actually be interested in writing about Romeran (and others if interested) basically training the dog to be able to do ranger-y things, like tracking and such, plus just companionship

@Romeran, I am fairly sure that even if dogs are outlawed from the barracks, which to be fair, makes some sense from an ordered point of view; there is nothing from stopping our Ranger characters from embarking on training and tracking with dogs which they may house or otherwise encounter privately. There are bound to be certain missions etc where such animals would be more hindrance than a help, and that must be considered. As much as the fact that Minas Tirith was a walled city, and less likely to cater to such a menagerie of animals in general than say Gondorian farmlands etc. Just thinking though, that whatever the general verdict is on your question, there may still be ways to incorporate RP with an animal companion etc around the kingdom and I look forward to reading/joining in with that possibility.

I'd like to make a mention here that if either of you guys need to find housing for a dog, Duinion's daughter would be happy to keep a dog at the farm for you ;)

About the NPC guys, the only thing I'd like to say is that Pete looks way too similar to Pele and when reading some of the other's posts, I have had to pause and reread to check which name was actually used, a few times lol.

[Romeran]

I did not mean to step into something so highly debated I don’t have strong opinions other than it should it should be consistent, clear, and concise so I was mostly interested in editing and integrating the content as it already exists rather than adding more content. But if there are a bunch of diverging opinions I’m not sure I want to sign up for managing all that, especially if not that many people would find it that useful. Maybe I should just leave it *backs away slowly*.

Re: dogs, given the common usage as tracking and hunting animals I agree it would be reasonable to have encounters and uses for dogs even if Rome doesn’t get one for himself. And yeah obviously would need to manage housing the dog when on an dog unfriendly mission. It sounds like Erynneth is up for it nice to have a dog sitter.

[Rillewen]

It sounds like Erynneth is up for it nice to have a dog sitter.

Definitely! Send her all the dogs! I dunno how her boss/ person who owns the farm will like having dogs running around but uh... she wants to help you rangers. And if dog sitting will help, then so be it

[Pele Alarion]

@Karis Ziranphel, @Romeran, @Arnyn - you know what, if you, guys, want to work on it without killing each other off in heated debates - fine. I do agree that the book might be very useful. I am somewhat reserved because often such things end up in too many arguments (have had enough of those already), and also I am not sure I have the time, energy, and ability to contribute significantly, except for commenting occasionally, perhaps.

@Ercassie, @Rillewen, and @Romeran - dogs miiiight be an option, but perhaps only after they are trained and don't make a mess. lol *plans on how to find out there is actually a dog running around the barracks*

Lt. Brian and Sg. Pete have been rather useful on occasion, but perhaps they can be slightly remodelled if needed.

[Rillewen]

@Pele Alarion
It shouldn't be too hard to find out about the dog, since she's running around causing trouble

[Romeran]

Yeah I have no desire to be involved in any debates about what should and shouldn’t be in a guide either. I’d honestly rather not create any conflict if I can avoid it, pretty happy to just ignore the guide

Yeah isn’t @Rillewen’s potential ranger recruit character currently chasing after a dog in the training grounds?

[Rillewen]

Yeah, that's Nal's dog Hattie, lol. Since Ercassie had posted that the dog wasn't in his dorm and all, I figured why not have some chaos come of it lol

[Arnyn]

Eek Pele, I have no inclination to rewrite the whole thing, or even big chunks of it. Maybe should not have looked up the link.

I think it was a great tool back when we had someone signing up for the Rangess almost every day (saved a lot of explaining), but now... I really would rather spend my time on RP, yes.

[Ercassie]

Thankyou @Pele Alarion for considering the dogs thing. And thank you @Rillewen for Erynneth’s kind offer.

@Romeran, Isys was on course toward the Training grounds and likely to notice/find Trastion and Hattie there, but then the King showed up in HQ. So the dog discovery will resume once the official announcement RP has concluded. I’m sure Pele is going to hear from a certain room inspection that there are dog chewed boots in Nal’s room or something. So either the young Ranger has picked up a disturbing habit and needs to learn to use the mess hall, or he clearly has a dog there.

[Rillewen]

Thankyou @Pele Alarion for considering the dogs thing. And thank you @Rillewen for Erynneth’s kind offer.

@Romeran, Isys was on course toward the Training grounds and likely to notice/find Trastion and Hattie there, but then the King showed up in HQ. So the dog discovery will resume once the official announcement RP has concluded. I’m sure Pele is going to hear from a certain room inspection that there are dog chewed boots in Nal’s room or something. So either the young Ranger has picked up a disturbing habit and needs to learn to use the mess hall, or he clearly has a dog there.

Don't forget about all the muddy dog pawprints all over everything lol. I guess he could try to claim that a dog must've somehow gotten into his room and done all that while he was asleep/out training...

[Ercassie]

“I made a chart of muddy prints on the bedsheets that noone was using, as a reference guide to revise from. What do you mean they all look like a dog prints ? Um I never claimed to be an artist” - Nal

But anyway I have a nice lot of posts I owe so .. *trots off to try and be productive*

[Romeran]

Is there a protocol for how a recruit becomes a ranger? Or a ranger gets their specialization? The old training method had very extensive posts that were like approved and stuff and then requirements for each rank. I assume it’s all just more “play it by ear” now? I’m not in any rush I’m just curious if there’s a precedence.

[Pele Alarion]

@Romeran , a good question! Now that there are actual recruits. I would tend more towards what used to be Findy's BT style of several interactive posts, but not sure about a specific count yet or anything.

[Rillewen]

I'm no authority on the matter, but i would think it might be more sensible to count the number of completed training RPs, rather than the number of posts. Maybe a certain amount of training in x, y, and z skills, or something?

[Pele Alarion]

The count of any sort might be tricky; covered/learned skills would probably be best to go by. *puts sorting training stuff near the top of the list to do*

[Karis Ziranphel]

We hadn't put any limits on that yet to make it easier to become a Ranger. Romeran, I think your guy should be able to report to HQ by now if you want to compare to previous methods. But sometimes you want to write more first if you feel your character needs it. You sped through all your training RPs so far. *shrugs* But that is between you and Pele now.

[Romeran]

Oh yeah I’m not ready for Romeran to move on yet. There’s still a lot for him to learn. I was mostly just asking if people had put thought into it. I think skills covered probably makes more sense than post count or something like that.