Guarding One's Self

[Boromir88]

I'm not sure if this is a lore thread, per se, or if the admins feel like it should be moved to a different forum than please do so. It's hopefully more of a lighthearted topic about how comfortable (or not) we are to allow other people (friends and family, mostly) to know about our shared fandom towards one author. So, I hope to hear from others who might not post in the lore forum a lot, to have a bit of a different topic about if you keep your Tolkien fandom close to the vest and more private, or does basically everyone who knows you know that you're a big Tolkien/Lord of the Rings/Movies geek? Would you say you're a geek?

A little about myself...well I've been called the Tolkien extrovert pretty much from any group. One of my closest friends I met online from a Tolkien fan page about 14 years ago. I ended up being his best man at a wedding, because he met his wife on that same site. I think I've met about 30 people online who have a shared appreciation for Tolkien. I used to be guarded about this. that is keeping my personal/family life separate from fellow online Tolkien enthusiasts. But about 6 years ago (actually around the time I was the best man at my friend's wedding mentioned previously) I dropped the guard, walls have come down. My social media pages are filled with either LOTR memes, posts talking about the movies or books, or my nephew. I think just about everyone knows now if they want to know something about Lord of the Rings they're going to ask me. Never thought I would be, but I'm quite alright with that. I used to (and I know many people who do) keep clear boundaries between my friends I've met through our shared love for Tolkien's works, and everyone else.

And that got me thinking what about everyone here.

[Romeran]

I'm very well known as being Tolkien obsessed, work, school, friends, I've never hid it. I've always had tons of lord of the rings books (I got the hard back white/grey editions of the HoME for Christmas when I was a kid, now they have versions with actual cover art!).

I used the line "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" at my own wedding during my "speech" (as the groom I was just thanking people for attending and giving out some flowers). I'm pretty sure I quoted Tolkien in the best man speech at my best man's wedding -- everyone basically expected it.

I don't have any like Tolkien paraphernalia that aren't books (although I do own a real sword it's historic rather than Tolkien inspired) so you'd never guess I was a Tolkien fan unless you saw my bookshelves in my house or asked me about it, but I'm very open about it.

What I'm not super open about is Tolkien related RP. I have a long-running D&D group with real life friends at least one of whom knows that I used to frequent the Plaza and did some RP but this isn't something I talk about too much. I'm not embarrassed by it, it's just a very different type of "nerdy" than most of my circle (I have a PhD in statistics so I work with a lot of "nerds" of a different flavor).

[Winddancer]

Good question. I don't really keep it a secret so much as I don't really know anyone that cares about it as much as I do. And that is with having found my partner on OP :P Even he is done with it! *gasp* I know right.. I don't care really, I am fine not talking about it outside of here/discord. Plenty to talk to about it in those places. However, if anyone even mentions LOTR, I do go all out geek on them :P

[The Good Hunter]

I've been pretty Tolkien obsessed since I was about 8. It was the first exposure I'd had to fantasy and genre fiction in general. Right after I read the Hobbit my mom showed me a taped version of the old Rankin-Bass Hobbit film and I was doomed. Even though the movie was rather terrible it's been my cornerstone. I didn't have many friends growing up so I never felt the need to hide being a nerd or understood why people thought it wasn't the coolest thing ever. My family, ironically, is where I encountered the most resistance. They were stuck on "it's a Christian allegory and no other interpretations are acceptable" and my favorite character was Gollum. Rock, meet hard place.

As the movies came out though, they softened and even recognized that I was a huge fan. My step brother took me to all three midnight premiers and got me my first hardback set because he knew I was a much bigger fan than he was. To date it's the only thing he ever gave me and I actually still have them in my bookshelf.

My love of Tolkien grew into a love of other fantasies (Terry Brooks, Tad Williams, and le sign even GRRM). I think being closed off from people in general shielded me a lot from the name calling and feeling like I needed to shelter myself and now, nearly 20 years later I'm very thankful for that.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

My wife and children run a mile whenever they hear me say the word 'Tolkien' - but what can you do? When I see the kind of stuff they watch or read I snort right back at them. And my friends have long ago accepted my obsessions - and, like others, over the years I've made some good friends through Middle-earth forums (some years ago, five of us on a G+ forum, who had never met in real life, managed to pen a joint essay that has now been published - that was a high point).

My problem is really the opposite of that which @Boromir88 presents, as I've always found that my Tolkien interests fail to intersect with those of other fans. I have a passion for Tolkien's scholarship and an obsession with charting the development of his ideas from The Hobbit to Lord of the Rings, and this means that I always want to talk about the early drafts of The Lord of the Rings and the first edition of The Hobbit, neither of which seem to appeal to many fans. Same goes for On Fairy-stories, which I have come to see as the key to the ideas I'm interested in. But few fans have spent much time pondering Return of the Shadow and none that I have met have the foggiest idea as to what On Fairy-stories is really about. This means that I spend most of my time on Middle-earth forums holding back on what I really want to talk about (not always with success). For me, @Fuin Elda's post 'Breadcrumbs to Queerness' was something of a liberation and I decided to 'come out of the closet' on the fact that I believe The Hobbit and not the Silmarillion is where the real magic is to be found. I hope that analogy does not offend anyone, but in truth I find the new plaza unique in its spirit of openness and as such a Middle-earth forum where, perhaps, I can say the things I really think (although I am aware that I usually bore people to tears when I do so - but one cannot have everything).

[Drífa]

My oldest son (who was 13 when I joined the plaza and is now 32) still calls me kimli on occasion. That was my name when I joined. My youngest son (8 years old and now 27) told his teacher that his mother was a dwarf who lived in KD. Actually, my youngest son was a member on the plaza for a short while as Dwill.

I have never hidden the fact that I am a fanatic. But understand younger people's feelings and not wish to be considered "geeky." I like geeky!

[Romeran]

I have a passion for Tolkien's scholarship and an obsession with charting the development of his ideas from The Hobbit to Lord of the Rings, and this means that I always want to talk about the early drafts of The Lord of the Rings and the first edition of The Hobbit, neither of which seem to appeal to many fans.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts @Chrysophylax Dives many of which I have had insufficient time to truly appreciate (I keep meaning to re-read and post in several of the lore threads, I'll get there eventually). In particular I really enjoy this angle, and it's one which I (like many people) am least familiar with. I have read and re-read Tolkien's primary materials many times, I've read a number of criticisms, and I've read a lot of the end material in HoME but I admit to not reading much of the history of either TH (although I do own History of the Hobbit) nor spending too much time on early LotR drafts. The one time that I did was for my essay on Faramir which was posted in Adv. Lore on OP and I learned a good deal about Faramir through reading the drafts (and Tolkien's letters). I may edit and re-post that essay some time, it was a very long time ago now.

Same goes for On Fairy-stories, which I have come to see as the key to the ideas I'm interested in. But few fans have spent much time pondering Return of the Shadow and none that I have met have the foggiest idea as to what On Fairy-stories is really about

I've read OFS probably twice, it's very dense (so is the Beowulf talk) so I certainly agree that I don't have the foggiest idea as to what it's really about. I'd actually love to perhaps to do a "read-along" where we read passages and discuss, especially since there are people (like you) who have thought deeply about this subject, I'd be eager to learn.

I decided to 'come out of the closet' on the fact that I believe The Hobbit and not the Silmarillion is where the real magic is to be found. I hope that analogy does not offend anyone, but in truth I find the new plaza unique in its spirit of openness and as such a Middle-earth forum where, perhaps, I can say the things I really think (although I am aware that I usually bore people to tears when I do so - but one cannot have everything).

I also love the hobbit and while Sil has a lot of very interesting material and stories in it I would describe TH as both a better story (in that it actually is a story) and contains far more "magic" (in the literary sense) rather than the "myth" which you get in the Sil. I've also learned from you and @Troelsfo that perhaps this opinion is not common

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Thanks for that, @Romeran! I don't want to hijack this thread but two things: (1) I'm more than happy to read through and discuss OFS - as also the Beowulf lecture (which is just amazing!); (2) you may not believe this, but of all these texts the one that has caused me the most brain ache is The Hobbit. I think I'd claim that I (mainly) understand both these lectures and that I have a good handle on how LOTR emerged after Moria. But I've been stuck on The Hobbit now for five years!

[Eldy Dunami]

My Tolkien fandom isn't a secret from friends and family. My Dad was the first person to try to get me into it, but—while I was initially resistant to reading the books—it only took me a few years to reach the point of weirding him out with just how deep I got into the legendarium (a term I doubt he'd recognize). But he's cool and supportive about things, generally speaking. I once had a reputation in church youth group circles as "the LOTR kid," which I later learned some people remembered me for years after I stopped attending. Pretty much everyone in my extended family has seen me reading various Tolkien books while sitting on a couch or around a campfire at family gatherings, and a lot of them listened to me talk/complain about the Hobbit films for a substantial chunk of the 2010s. My immediate family knows about my involvement on the Plaza (and other forums, not all of them Tolkien-related) and has heard me tell stories about online happenings from time to time over the past twelve years. My parents have names and contact information for some of my online friends since I made a standing request a long time ago that they notify people if anything ever happened to me.

On the other hand, I'm a little wary of letting on just how much I enjoy Tolkien, at least around non-family. I'm hardly a closet geek—I wore Star Wars t-shirts throughout my undergraduate years, I own two different Ravenclaw sweatshirts, and I've met up with coworkers at our main regional anime convention—but I'm uncomfortable with the idea of people I know IRL being aware of how much emotional investment I have in the legendarium and how much time I've devoted to this interest since I was nine. It took a long time to realize that this was less about fearing anti-Tolkien or anti-fantasy-genre stigma, and more a pathological fear that once people know I care about and enjoy something on a more-than-casual level, they can use it against me. Best not to let them know, and then nobody can threaten to take it away, or rub it in my face during arguments. :V But that's a product of a certain toxic relationship in my childhood, not a rational risk assessment of people I currently know.

[Nessa Saelind]

May I firstly say that I really liked reading about your experiences as Tolkien fans and how your love for Tolkien and his work(s) fits into your lives.

When I think about it I wouldn't call myself a geek, although I suppose the description could probably fit me. The fact that I like and admire Tolkien and his works are not really a secret per se, but I rarely talk about it with my family or friends. My family not being very interested in fantasy as a genre and come to think of it they are not really interested in my reading habits in general so... Wasted effort there. With friends, we just have so many various other subjects to talk to, books and reading included, that we don't really focus on one particular author or fandom. So it's not a secret, but I guess I don't actively talk about it unless it comes up in conversation... Maybe I'm not as much of a fan as I think I am

[Fuin Elda]

For me, @Fuin Elda's post 'Breadcrumbs to Queerness' was something of a liberation and I decided to 'come out of the closet' on the fact that I believe The Hobbit and not the Silmarillion is where the real magic is to be found. I hope that analogy does not offend anyone, but in truth I find the new plaza unique in its spirit of openness and as such a Middle-earth forum where, perhaps, I can say the things I really think (although I am aware that I usually bore people to tears when I do so - but one cannot have everything).

Honestly this is quite an honor to hear that that thread of mine did that for you! I honestly enjoy reading your posts all the time even if I don't have anything to add because I am not that great of a lorist as I call it.

Outside of lore I am well known as a LOTR fanatic. People come to me in town for nerdy things of any sort not just LOTR - question on DnD? Warhammer? Pokemon? Pathfinder? How to Art? Blacksmithing? Sewing? Go visit the tattoo shop. Question on the LOTR, bring snacks you're in for a long talk akin to the Silmarillion itself. not necessarily lore heavy or deeper meanings but I've had 3 people locally approach me for LOTR based tattoos as well so there is that lol

My new friends just saw my house last night and were in shock and awe at the number of LOTR items that I have.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Fuin Elda

[Boromir88]

Thank you everyone for the replies! Like @Nessa Saelind I really enjoyed reading about everyone's different experiences becoming Tolkien fans and how we share (or maybe don't, or how much we share) our passion for the story and the author.

Similar to one of @Romeran's comments...I've been playing D&D with a group of 5 friends for about 8 months now, and it's the #1 thing I look forward to every Sunday. I was actually asked to join because one of my friends knew how much I was a Tolkien fanatic and thought to ask me when they wanted an extra player. I'm glad he did, but I must say I have not been as open to letting the rest of the world know how much I enjoy playing D&D. At least not yet, but to be fair, this has been an 8-month passion, compared to my 20 years of Tolkien obsession. Also my friend who asked if I wanted to join in their campaign knew I played Warhammer fantasy when I was younger. I lost interest in Warhammer though because I just didn't think Age of Sigmar was that good of a system, compared to earlier Warhammer fantasy editions (and generally I just have no interest in shooter-games/movies or systems like 40K). Now the D&D group like Lord of the Rings, their interest are more skewed towards the movies, but all of them know how much I love the books and will happily discuss the many ways the books and movies vary with me. The DM of the current campaign I'm in has read the books, and a significant part of the lore for his homebrew campaign is inspired by Tolkien. He absolutely loves (of which I agree with) Fingolfin taking on Morgoth as the most bad*** moment. :D

And @Eldy Dunami's comment hits home for several of the friends I've met.

Best not to let them know, and then nobody can threaten to take it away, or rub it in my face during arguments.

I'm definitely the Tolkien extrovert of the group, I plaster it everywhere. But the introverts in my closest circle would agree with Eldy's above comment.

[Romeran]

That's awesome @Boromir88 ! I've been playing D&D (on and off) with this core group of friends (three of us) since we were maybe 11 or 12, we've since added two more people but the five of us have been playing consistently every week (save the occasional week when real life prevents it) for over two years now. It's been a real pleasure and a treat. We have since switched systems and aren't using D&D rules specifically but it's the same type of thing.

I was also super into Warhammer both fantasy and 40k and more recently have spent a good deal of time painting the figures. I posted some in a cottage thread. In that thread I show a pic of my D&D character who I modeled on HeroForge and then hand painted, but the rest are 40k models . Naith who you probably remember is a professional miniature painter and is orders of magnitude better than me. Winddancer showed me his instagram.

I used to be more closed off about D&D but now I happily mention at work that I have D&D that night or things of that sort. Granted I work mostly with engineers and scientists and tech people where it's much more generally accepted.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

I have something in common with Chrys when it comes to family. They know about it, but never shared any love or interest for the roleplay part on the Plaza. My real life friends never understood the essence of what written roleplay was, or could imagine it. They wouldn't know how to write in character, in words on digital paper. In the past when we lived altogether I used to write in the hours when my sister was sleeping long in the morning and my father was off to work, and I could occupy the computer, since we had to share back in 2005. In 2008 I bought my own laptop and could choose my hours from then on the work on posts for the Plaza. Now in 2020 I have my own desktop and my father is longer active on the computer due to his mental condition. I had from 2004 on a long list of friends on both Yahoo and MSN, what I regretted loosing when MSN went offline in 2012 and Yahoo in 2017. Discord is a poor replacement for all you could with the messengers. But there is little else these days for Instant Messaging.

My family was fine with watching the movies, but that was about it. My dad was quite a bookfan of Tolkien back in the fifties and those books came on the market he collected the Hobbit, the Lotr, the Appendices and the Silmarillion. And in my teens encouraged me to read the stories, but got a hard time really imagining it all, as I am not a visual thinker, but a word thinker. I never really talk about my online activities, because soon I say something about, interest veers off, and other subjects come on the table. So sharing this interest is bordered to this place. My interest was always kind of weird considered. In the past I walked in the trap to talk about it, but these days no longer. It is as much a known secrecy.

[Boromir88]

Thank you for sharing Aikari! I was curious to hear from writers when I started this thread, because I do very little writing here, and elsewhere. My perspective is limited to lore and sharing that interest with not just other Tolkien fans, but family, friends and acquaintances as well. I was curious to hear from some Tolkien writers on this forum. I have a few friends who I've met on Tolkien sites and are writers. They would write for RP on the site, and one has had a few books published. While they were inspired by Tolkien and he influenced their writing, I've found that writers (like Tolkien too) have many interests and experiences that influence their writing.

*scampers off to check out Romeran's and Naith's minis*

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Boromir: You're more fortunate than me to have interested people around you. I had once a wish to share really more indept, but never found any ears online or offline for that. I know how fascinating it is to learn where others get their influences from and that gets incorporated with the stories they are writing. Most of my stuff comes from real life of what I hear, see, smell and read, and experience myself. Anything Tolkien comes from any source I find or already have in possession, paper or digital.

[Fuin Elda]

@Romeran Thank you for sharing those links! I'd never seen Naith's minitures before and those are absolutely astounding (yours is also excellent and honestly at about where my own skill level is for the most part in miniture painting).

I find it interesting that so many on here play DnD and use it as a further outlet for creativity - I know I've mentioned it but I as of last night now run 3 campaigns and play in 2. (The second campaign literally had it's game 0 last night, and campaign 3 has it's game 0 on wednesday thought it's going to to be a sci-fi starfinder game instead.) I've had the absolute pleasure of falling in with a bunch of highly skilled RPers (even if they've never done text based RP like this) for the campaigns I play in quite by accident where I play one with the DM from the opposite game. I'd kind of hoped to run a DnD campaign using TTS for plaza members but at this point I can't I will burn out far too fast and far too much with 4 games to run since I tend to make full 3D maps to interact with (and that's todays task is to make StarFinder maps to play wednesdays game)

For writing outside the Plaza... I don't generally have a large audience though I'm not sure the Plaza itself is a large audience we're a pretty small tight knit community. Maybe one day I'll actually get off my butt and get the webcomic/graphic novel I've been humming and hawing over for the last 4 years off the ground but I am not sure I'd have the readership for it.