Tolkien and historical inspiration

[Nessa Saelind]

Inspired by an interesting exchange in the Arnor or Gondor? thread I had with @Boromir88 and @Chrysophylax Dives.

In the thread, I pointed out some similarities between the division of Arnor and the division of the Carolingian Empire after the death of Charlemagne's son Louis the Pious. This also reminded me of other similarities between the Franks (and other peoples that lived in Europe in Antiquity and the Middle Ages), their society and some of the cultures in Middle Earth.

For example, in Numenoreans and their descendants, we see a version of Lex salica - whose best-known part is the principle of exclusion of women from the inheritance of thrones, fiefs and other properties. During Tar Aldarion's reign, we see how the Law of Succession is amended so that his daughter Tar-Ancalimë could inherit the throne since he had no (legitimate) sons.

This change from exclusive male (agnatic) primogeniture in Numenor to primogeniture, in general, reminded me of the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713 which enabled the Habsburg Maria Theresa to inherit her father's throne. {nota bene - her route to succeeding the throne was not that simple (history is complicated like that ), the whole thing led to the War of Austrian Succession, but the document, in essence, bypassed the rules of Lex salica and allowed her to inherit}. It's also interesting to note that in both in elvish and human societies of Middle Earth we have male agnatic primogeniture as the basic of inheritance instead of open succession which was more common in the Ottoman Empire.

We know that Tolkien was a professor of Anglo-Saxon Studies in Oxford when he was writing the Hobbit, and that was inspired by various medieval cultures, their myths and legends - if memory serves me, Anglo-Saxons, Goths and Vikings served as an inspiration for Rohan's past and culture. And that the events and places he saw during WWI certainly served as an inspiration for some places and events in the Lord of the Rings. So it got me thinking about what other historical events, people, places and cultures served as his inspiration? And what similarities and influences of historical events, peoples, cultures or places did you notice while reading Tolkien's works? I'd love to hear your thoughts about this! It's a fascinating subject and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

[Romeran]

Great thread idea. History has always been a personal interest of mine but nothing that I have studied in any great detail. The discussion already has been particularly interesting.

In terms of the question in the OP there's one which I was recently looking into. I was trying to decide what type of minion character to make and wanted to look into who exactly were a part of the servants of Sauron (other than the obvious orcs and such). In the Battle of Pelennor there are two particular quotations:

"There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on the call of their Captain. He now was destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand. Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues. Some now hastened up behind the Rohirrim, others held westward to hold off the forces of Gondor and prevent their joining with Rohan." (The Return of the King, The Battle of the Pelennor Fields)

They Variags of Khand was interesting to me. They show up once more in the chapter itself but it is not particularly enlightening:

"East rode the knights of Dol Amroth driving the enemy before them: troll-men and Variags and orcs that hated the sunlight. South strode Éomer and men fled before his face, and they were caught between the hammer and the anvil." (ibid)

Well according to Tolkien gateway Variag is a Slavic word derived from Norse Varingar "mercenary people" (vár "contract").

And I had recently watched a documentary on them, but this seems linked to The Varangian Guard who were Norse mercenaries, soldiers, and body-guards of the Byzantine Emperor. It is almost certain that Tolkien would have been aware of the Varangian Guard and so it seems likely to be inspired by them.

The Variags are said to be of Khand which is south east of Mordor (rather than the Norseman who came from the North) but perhaps Khand is where they had moved to (c.f. the Byzantine Empire) and that perhaps they were originally from a different area, although that would be pure speculation.

[Elenhir]

One thing I will note about Variags, which is not a mistake Romeran has made but is very prevalent in most places that present the information, is that Tolkien does not describe the Variags with beards or axes. That's a different group, unspecified Easterlings also at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields (seen in Romeran's first quote as definitely some other people). But it's commonly used to improperly strengthen the connection between Tolkien's Variags and the Varangians (because beards and axes are stereotypical Viking fodder) despite being completely false. Even in that Tolkien Gateway article referenced, the misidentification was only removed in a 2016 edit. So if this is an idea anyone wants to look into more on their own time, anything that tells you the Variags were bearded and carried axes is not a well-constructed source of information and you should find a better one or verify all quotes (which is a pain).

[Chrysophylax Dives]

In the South one has to have at the back of one's mind Troy as well as Byzantium.

In terms of bogus historical theory, my feeling is that there is some imaginative relationship between the Rohirrim, the Homeric horseman, and the outrageous bigotry of William Ridgeway, a Cambridge Professor of Archeology who argued forcefully in 1900 that the Greek heroes of Troy, as described by Homer, were 'in fact' northern warriors whose culture is read in Beowulf who had recently conquered the decadent and effeminate Mycenean civilization.

One need not fear. The inter-European racism is unpackaged in any step to the Riders of Rohan, who do not conquer but ride to aid a much greater civilization, whose greatness they recognize. (Its like between Cambridge 1900 and Oxford 1950 the ancient English learned some humility.)

The Variags may be a less creditable branch who carried on deeper into the south? Maybe bad Bardlings.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

What similarities and influences of historical events, peoples, cultures or places did you notice while reading Tolkien's works? I'd love to hear your thoughts about this! ~ Nessa.

Since reading I am pondering about this in regard my own perspective. My perceiving of Tolkien's works parallels with what my parents and grandparents gave me upon European history. Anything beyond the Iron Curtain was not of particular interest for my grandparents or my mother.* My father though stood out and adventured across whole Europe in the sixties from Scandinavia to Russia in the east, Greece and Italy in the south all by car. I was twelve years old when glasnost and perestroika came along and by 1991 the whole east lay open to enter. I was then sixteen years old and my highschool was nearly finished. All of the history developed since 1980 I never learned from history books. School history was mostly of knowing the most important persons, their achievements, a range of colonies and the goods coming from there, long range of important battles, and the line of the Dutch royal family from about the early 16th century onwards. My paternal grandfather (1911 - 2007) got one remark about my historical education at school: 'What are you children learning still in school these days?' He was not able to reflect his lifelong experiences with what I told about all the objective facts from history and that I had little historical awareness at twenty years. In the years beyond 1995 to 2005 I visited regularly and we had those awesome historical and political discussions, he gave me things to read and next time I had to reflect what my opinion was and he reflected his upon it. Regular we thought differently, but that was no bother. He used to grin: 'So I stay mentally young.' And he was over 85 years old. Tolkien came by in that period as well to read, as my dad knew what my grandpa discussed with me and my sister.

My interests are currently changing a bit into areas I never sniffed around before. Boromir shared to me in the Guarding One Self thread: 'that my perspective is limited to lore and sharing that interest with not just other Tolkien fans, but family, friends and acquaintances as well. I was curious to hear from some Tolkien writers on this forum.' And I gave my own input on that. I haven't been really that conscious to search for real life historical events, peoples, cultures and places in all of Tolkien's works. It was more of a possible fictional historical stretch of what could have gone before, but never was reality. I follow it more as where the Light of Valinor shines the strongest. Currently I am working on the sixth and last battle of Beleriand, and for that I am digging through the Silmarillion for little facts. It is writing about Aikári's own Minyár people in their own lands across the Pelóri mountains, and very interesting actually. But I don't "see" real life Europe reflected in that. The Silmarillion is largely an oversight of events that took place. Anything around is for the imagination. There are simply no data. The book counts as early Middle Earth history.

To me Tolkien wrote his works in the sense to create a more idealistic world to live in than the one that existed literally around him. He wrote them as we all know for his own children. For myself I don't see value in questioning everything or seek where our world reflects there. But if others enjoy doing that, it is alright with me. Tolkien's work got a kind of beauty over them either light or dark and it is good dwelling there for roleplay. His inspiration comes from real life events in times before I was born, but my parents and grandparents knew. And he created an unparalled work out of it, which is not surprisingly and there exist an University Chair to become a Tolkienist. He gave his share to what is English Literature is. It is a level of prestige a very few in life ever perceive. I will never have it, but neither I will ever be jealous. The man deserves my admiration. I am sorry I went a bit off topic from historical inspiration.

*All passed away before 2010

[Nessa Saelind]

Firstly, thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I was glad to log in and see interesting responses and reactions to my musings.

Regarding the Variags of Khand and how they could possibly be inspired by Byzantine's Varangian Guard you mentioned @Romeran I agree with @Elenhir and @Chrysophylax Dives reasoning. When I've read and reread the Appendices in Lord of the Rings and mused about different cultures, the Variags reminded me more of Genghis Khan and his Mongols or Timur (Tamerlane). I see similarities with how the Mongols under Genghis swept through Europe with the way the Wainriders and the men of Khand gathered in the East and attacked Gondor in the Third Age.

One need not fear. The inter-European racism is unpackaged in any step to the Riders of Rohan, who do not conquer but ride to aid a much greater civilization, whose greatness they recognize. (Its like between Cambridge 1900 and Oxford 1950 the ancient English learned some humility.)

A bit off-topic, but this paragraph reminded me of a discussion we had at my university (I've read history at the Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences in Split, for background) about the decline and fall of the Western Roman Empire and the "Barbaric" Migrations. It's a complex topic and many things contributed to the decline and fall of the Roman West, barbaric migrations were only a part of that. However, still, there's the prevailing thought that the main reason for the fall were the barbaric migrations. The fun fact is that the various people who migrated on the territory of the Western Roman Empire had no desire to destroy the Empire and the cultural and technological accomplishments of the Romans. They wanted to participate and enjoy those luxuries (such as thermae for example) - but they didn't have the know-how to maintain them. To connect this with the people of Rohan, I believe that Tolkien (intentionally or not) really did display the concept that "barbarian" people don't always want to destroy a greater civilisation, but participate in its accomplishments.

Sorry if I got carried away there, history is such a fascinating topic to me and I love to chat about it, sometimes it can be hard to rein myself in.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Nessa: I bought a book about the European migrations between 375AD - 800AD (600 pages), written by Swedish historian Dick Harrison and translated from Krigarnas och helgonens tid (Swedish title). It serves for me to fill the hiatus in knowledge about this particular period there is fairly little known about. He nuances this 'barbaric' image and sheds light on the flourishing cultures in different places in Europe. This is also the period where the Frisian Kingdom in Holland came up, and became the reason these people spread out all along the eastern beaches of the Northsea, from Denmark, to what is today Zeeland, (southwestern province of Holland). I am very hesitant to use a term as 'barbarian', because there is a strong negative connotation to it. What I am reading in that book about the peoples west and east of the Rhine among could be a good template for what Ranger life is in North Eriador. I am now with the Merovingians and the Karolingians in France and the Longobarden in Italy. It is fascinating.

[Boromir88]

Woo for starting this thread @Nessa Saelind and happy I played a part inspiring you to create it.

I will first point to the Foreward, where talking about his dislike for allegory Tolkien writes: "I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers."

How I view, experience, and interpret history will be different from yours and everyone else. That's one of the reasons I was glad to read Aikari's posts on this thread and in "Guarding One’s self" because her perspective of history and writing are different from mine, yet we still share the interest for Tolkien.

I recall on the OP, a great thread by halfir on "chateau generals." Now, of course "chateau generalship" was a term that came about during WW1, but you could probably file that under "modern history" for Tolkien, since he wouldn't begin writing Lord of the Rings until 20 years later.

"Chateau generals" would lead from the back. During WW1 these leaders would sit safely behind the lines, behind the trenches, in the French mansions, while thousands of (often) young boys would be slaughtered. Tolkien despised Chateau leadership, because not only were young boys being slaughtered in the trenches, but it was a very inefficient way to command or pass information from the command to the front lines. Denethor (and Sauron) clearly display this type of leadership:

Denethor laughed bitterly. 'Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wait, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand." (The Return of the King: The Siege of Gondor)

Denethor implies that he could still be on the front leading, but why should he? Well, in Denethor's opinion it's what "great lords" do, use others are your weapons, even your sons. Some would argue that Denethor, for the political stability of Gondor, is a Ruling Steward, he is not meant to be at the front of a battle. However, I think Tolkien would frown upon the leadership Denethor is displaying here, this "Chateau leadership" because Denethor even compares it to "it's what Sauron does!" It's a clear contrast from Aragorn's leadership and many of the Kings of Gondor. Of course this front line leadership is the reason Anarion's line ended in Gondor, but leading from the front was something Tolkien valued. Denethor is displaying Tolkien's extreme distaste for the Chateau generals of WW1, "spending even my sons."

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Boromir: Thanks! Interesting subject. I am recognise this "chateau general" principle, as I saw it always in paintings prior the modern era, found in all in galleries and museums. It is the practical and strategical way of commanding in the old way, prior the last European War. When the airplane was invented, this all changed. Mapping from the air was sudden possible, where before only the highest hill gave view how the forces moved over the field. So a battlefield was often chosen by the defender. Today we got this "chateau general" more than ever, with military drones flying over to the target, dropping the load and veering off, where the controller sits safe and sound miles away behind a computer desk. This is a gradual development ever since the Gulfwars in the 1990's. And this kind of warfare only becomes more digitalised in the future.

I know for myself I have pretty traditional view for someone still quite young (46 years). The difference between leadership between Aragorn and Denethor is evident in the books, and it is clear what Tolkien preferred. You have a clear eye for such details, I admire your posts for! I share myself this under the Romantic (art) thought, the 'to die with your men' principle. Just the idea of the captain goes last offboard in the idea 'die with the ship'. In reality this seldom happens, and all sorts onboard procedures exist that everyone gets off safely, including the captain and all with dry clothes. How often is an adrift tanker on the Northsea as victim of a storm, before the coast? A few times in a year at least in the Dutch seawaters. Human safety goes over the products and the ship itself. A photo in the newspaper is the evidence.

We didn't have television at home. As a teenager I used to write stories about knights and kings, because I loved doing that. And I let my kings and commanders go first into battle, just as Aragorn does. That was the true hero principle, in my teenager fantasies. But (old) grownups* in 1980's corrected those fantasies of a ten/twelve year old into how command really happened and was far more realistic. And encouraged me to follow the 'chateau general' principle with the characters that commanded on a battlefield. It was all still very fantastic and unrealistic, as they won the day and never lost. They would be using flags and pigeons among to signal messages. Just as the Bolg uses the flagpoles in the Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit movie 3). So it kind of happens in the Hobbit book as well. This commander essembly ahead of the battle is highlighted in the quote beneath. But here too rushes Bard off to go ahead in battle.

So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves. This is how it fell out. Ever since the fall of the Great Goblin of the Misty Mountains the hatred of their race for the dwarves had been rekindled to fury. Messengers had passed to and fro between all their cities, colonies and strongholds; for they resolved now to win the dominion of the North. Tidings they had gathered in secret ways; and in all the mountains there was a forging and an arming. Then they marched and gathered by hill and valley, going ever by tunnel or under dark, until around and beneath the great mountain Gundabad of the North, where was their capital, a vast host was assembled ready to sweep down in time of storm unawares upon the South. Then they learned of the death of Smaug, and joy was in their hearts: and they hastened night after night through the mountains, and came thus at last on a sudden from the North hard on the heels of Dain. Not even the ravens knew of their coming until they came out in the broken lands which divided the Lonely Mountain from the hills behind. How much Gandalf knew cannot be said, but it is plain that he had not expected this sudden assault.
This is the plan that he made in council with the Elvenking and with Bard; and with Dain, for the dwarf-lord now joined them: the Goblins were the foes of all, and at their coming all other quarrels were forgotten. Their only hope was to lure the goblins into the valley between the arms of the Mountain; and themselves to man the great spurs that struck south and east. Yet this would be perilous, if the goblins were in sufficient numbers to overrun the Mountain itself, and so attack them also from behind and above; but there was no time for make any other plan, or to summon any help. Soon the thunder passed, rolling away to the South-East; but the bat-cloud came, flying lower, over the shoulder of the Mountain, and whirled above them shutting out the light and filling them with dread. "To the Mountain!" called Bard. "To the Mountain! Let us take our places while there is yet time!"

~ Hobbit, Clouds Burst chapter 17

*Most were maternal family of me via my mother. Her father (1914) was the youngest of eight alive children and her mother (1916) was the dear little sister of two more than ten years senior brothers. On both sides brothers and sisters visited regularly, and had good contact with nieces and nephews of them as well. Such close contact was possible as most families lived in and around Dordrecht (Holland). Among the men all served in the army and the principle 'to die for king/queen and father/motherland' was a honour to them and undiscussable. I feel rather different about that, with the thought of 'spending sons and daughters'. And why Aragorn is personally favoured more by me than grumpy Denethor. All of it lives just in my memory. The persons themselves passed away long time ago.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

I haven't been really that conscious to search for real life historical events, peoples, cultures and places in all of Tolkien's works. It was more of a possible fictional historical stretch of what could have gone before, but never was reality. I follow it more as where the Light of Valinor shines the strongest.

Currently I am working on the sixth and last battle of Beleriand, and for that I am digging through the Silmarillion for little facts. It is writing about Aikári's own Minyár people in their own lands across the Pelóri mountains, and very interesting actually. But I don't "see" real life Europe reflected in that. The Silmarillion is largely an oversight of events that took place. Anything around is for the imagination. There are simply no data. The book counts as early Middle Earth history.

To me Tolkien wrote his works in the sense to create a more idealistic world to live in than the one that existed literally around him. He wrote them as we all know for his own children. For myself I don't see value in questioning everything or seek where our world reflects there.

Aiks, if I may ask, what country are you writing from?

On what you say here, which is most interesting, I think it is right but not all right. There is, or was once, a crossover to our world, but only our world of story and not, I think, of events (or not exactly). As a dry fact, consider the imaginative space that opened out after 1859 when human artefacts were dug up in the Somme valley together with traces of animals long vanished from France - this, conventionally, is the moment that Europe is said to have discovered its pre-history - a hitherto unsuspected yet vast amount of time in which human apparently lived in Europe (and indeed the whole world!) For some reason the shock of discovery of this pre-history has been forgotten, but I think even from the earliest Silmarillion stories Tolkien's imagination was weaving in and out of this newly found almost-endless time.

The shape of the land and the seas has changed since then... Today we talk in a disenchanted History from which the last elves have long fled (or become insubstantial). And all the records of our history are different to those that Tolkien imagined because his imaginative realms were enchanted - they were connected still with elves and with Numenor. So for this reason, historical comparisons between the legends of our recorded history and the legendary-history recorded by hobbits, is perhaps misguided.

Yet there is a connection. Not of event but of story. In 1936 Tolkien took the far-reaching step of reading Plato's Timeaus and Criteas as a philologist, inferring that the story of Atlantis sketched within was a very ancient memory of the beginning of History, when the world was made round.

This brought the ancient South of Europe into view of Tolkien's longstanding play with the most ancient allusions of the oldest songs of the North, which gave him certain elements worked carefully into LOTR - such as the peace of Frodo, the gold ring that Faramir leaves untouched on the highway, the coming of the kings from out of the sea; these are very, very ancient elements of northern tradition that all and each find a carefully sifted place in LOTR.

It might seem that the History and the Elvish do not touch at all. But i think the point is that they do touch, only in the passing at the crossroads, as it were - Tolkien's stories offer a sort of imagined 'pre-history' of the oldest stories that we know.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: I am from Holland. I know there are many truths out there, and not necessarily what I know is particular true. Would be rather odd, it if was? I am not so familiar with lore upon Tolkien and can only tell what I mostly was bagaged with. I am glad for your insights as they share another light than my own feeble thoughts and ideas. You voiced it beautifully: 'But i think the point is that they do touch, only in the passing at the crossroads, as it were - Tolkien's stories offer a sort of imagined 'pre-history' of the oldest stories that we know.' I can agree to that.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Aiks. On two of the the ancient northern peoples you mention in your book. Tolkien says the Frisians were the same as the English, or at least one of the main tribes settling England (but for some reason cut out of the standard: Angles, Saxons, and Jutes). The Lombards in Italy he observes preserved their own version of the most ancient myth-legend of Scyf, the king who comes over the water. Tolkien seems to have had a peculiar interest in the Lombards (possibly because he thought they were the remnants of the Heathobard priest-kings).

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: Ah sorry, off course. Yes, Tolkien is hypothetically on the right track. Today's insights venture around that the Frisii from Tacitus annals aren't the ones later settling in Friesland (Dutch northern province). But that the Frisii (Frisavones) around the second half of the third century moved away (archeological proven) from Friesland, seen as an emigration gulf within the jurisdiction of the Roman Empire. It is however unkown if they either moved areas behind the Roman borders, or they migrated to areas as the British islands. This stone was found by Melandra Castle, a Roman fort in Gamesley in Derbyshire, carrying the inscription: "Velerius Vitalis, Centurion of the First Cohort of the Frisiavones". There is indeed a possibility that about 1700 years ago indeed Frisii went to live in England. Headsource of this hypothese is the Byzantium history writer Procopius, who mentioned in his works that 'Phrissones' lived next of the 'Brittones' and 'Angiloi', as one of three tribes in Brittannia. It is all hypothetical, as there is no official archeological evidence of this as far I know.

The Frisians I talked about are from much later date around 8th century and do come from North Germany, Schleswig-Holstein. King Radboud created around that time kingdom, which has been taken up in the official reading (Canon) on the history of the Netherlands and is today part of the educational programs in Dutch schools. Friezen and Friesland were just geografic concepts in the third century. Likely a herintroducted term by Merovingian and later Karolingian kings for an area at the northern borders of their empires, based on old Roman texts. In later centuries these got an etnical dimension. A movie was made about Redboud (Redbad) and that one I have. The Dutch (Viking) freedom spirit lays rather heavily over the film and was a bit hard to digest for me.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Chrys: Ah sorry, off course. Yes, Tolkien is hypothetically on the right track. Today's insights venture around that the Frisii from Tacitus annals aren't the ones later settling in Friesland (Dutch northern province). But that the Frisii (Frisavones) around the second half of the third century moved away (archeological proven) from Friesland, seen as an emigration gulf within the jurisdiction of the Roman Empire. It is however unkown if they either moved areas behind the Roman borders, or they migrated to areas as the British islands. This stone was found by Melandra Castle, a Roman fort in Gamesley in Derbyshire, carrying the inscription: "Velerius Vitalis, Centurion of the First Cohort of the Frisiavones". There is indeed a possibility that about 1700 years ago indeed Frisii went to live in England. Headsource of this hypothese is the Byzantium history writer Procopius, who mentioned in his works that 'Phrissones' lived next of the 'Brittones' and 'Angiloi', as one of three tribes in Brittannia. It is all hypothetical, as there is no official archeological evidence of this as far I know.

The Frisians I talked about are from much later date around 8th century and do come from North Germany, Schleswig-Holstein. King Radboud created around that time kingdom, which has been taken up in the official reading (Canon) on the history of the Netherlands and is today part of the educational programs in Dutch schools. Friezen and Friesland were just geografic concepts in the third century. Likely a herintroducted term by Merovingian and later Karolingian kings for an area at the northern borders of their empires, based on old Roman texts. In later centuries these got an etnical dimension. A movie was made about Redboud (Redbad) and that one I have. The Dutch (Viking) freedom spirit lays rather heavily over the film and was a bit hard to digest for me.

Wonderful stuff! Thank you.
Did you read anything on the cult of Odin? In the early 20th century the British Anglo-Saxon scholars got it into their heads that Odin was originally a southern deity who came north in the wake of the Gothic migrations. I long had the feeling that Tolkien thought of Odin as a dim memory of Sauron and the Viking cult of Odin another marriage with necromancy.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: In the book of Dick Harrison I am still busy with the first chapter A political skeleton, then there are chapter two Humans, their lives and welfare, chapter three Early Middle Ages World of Ideas, believesystems and culture, and as last Human in the society, war, law, power and gender. Tolkien is mentioned in the prologue of the book as one of the writers who needed a medieval frame for his fantasy world. The idea of the middle ages was born in Italy, where the period between classical antiquity and the newly emerging renaissance was named as 'Media Aetas', the time in the middle.

On the Cult of Odin, I have heard of it. I just found an online article that partly relates to it. I read it for suitability to be linked here, but it is fully professionally written. It is a queer analysis on the Cult of Odin. The article stretches also partly about a group of people I rather not think off. But fruther it is good reading and enlighting when it comes to blending upon genders and the relation of Viking Magic and the performance of it. I am not surprised there were British and no doubt other foreign scholars who supported the idea of Odin being a Southern deity. What I do know, is the Odin name is way much older than the times of the Goths. But more you can read on Wiki under etymology and origins.

On the subject being Goth and their migrations. According Harrison Goths are a collective for what at the time prominent and succesful nations were, or collection of groups. He says: 'Between the late classical antiquity and the time of the migrations it was pretty popular to be a Goth among these groups and nations. It was a term in the third century for groups of people whose languages and historical backgrounds not necessarily much connections had with being Goth. It is a folk terminological development that has led to countless misunderstandings and pointless debates among generations of researchers.' (Gothic dilemma, page 30)

I am sorry that I can't put the relation together that Tolkien thought of Odin as a dim memory of Sauron and the Viking cult of Odin another marriage with necromancy. But maybe one of us around here can either say there is truth in that or not?

[Romeran]

Regarding the Variags of Khand and how they could possibly be inspired by Byzantine's Varangian Guard you mentioned @Romeran I agree with @Elenhir and @Chrysophylax Dives reasoning. When I've read and reread the Appendices in Lord of the Rings and mused about different cultures, the Variags reminded me more of Genghis Khan and his Mongols or Timur (Tamerlane). I see similarities with how the Mongols under Genghis swept through Europe with the way the Wainriders

Yes I just want to point out that in my post I only quoted the passages regarding the Variags specifically calling out the Variags (there are only two such specific passages in the Lord of the Rings, the two I quoted). I didn't mean to imply that they were anything like the Norse, only that linguistically they appear to be similar to the Varangian Guard, quite likely more related to the mercenary aspect than to the Northmen part. As @Elenhir points out there's no mention of them wielding axes or having beards -- which is instead associated with the Easterlings in the subsequent line.

I should point out that the Wainriders are not the Variags (or at least, if they are related, they were at one point a different peoples). The Wainriders come from Rhûn and swept south joining the Men of Khand (who may be the Variags or the Variags may be a subset or something else we just know that the Variags came from Khand based on the map in UT).

It's quite possible that the Wainriders became mercenaries in Khand and that they became the Variags of Khand (c.f. Norsemen moving to the Byzantine empire and becoming the Varangian Guard). But as far as I'm aware there's no textual evidence of this specifically.

"Many of the Wainriders now passed south of Mordor and made alliance with men of Khand and of Near Harad; and in this great assault from north and south, Gondor came near to destruction" (RotK, Appendix A, iv Gondor and the heirs of Anárion)

and

"On the other hand the eastern Wainriders had been spreading southward, beyond Mordor, and were in conflict with the peoples of Khand and their neighbours further south. Eventually a peace and alliance was agreed between these enemies of Gondor, and an attack was prepared that should be made at the same time from north and south. " (The Unfinished Tales, Ciron and Eorl)

Again indicating that the Men of Khand should not be confused with Easterlings or the Wainriders.

[Boromir88]

The Varangian guard is an attractive theory and they're commonly connected to the Variags. Part of it is likely do to in Russian, Varangian literally translates to Variag. I've always remembered that little tidbit. The problem I've always had with the theory is Gondor is more clearly compared to Byzantine, and the Variags should be allied with Gondor if they are meant to be the Varangian guard.

However, Tolkien does like to draw from different places and times in history. On one hand we could envision Minas Tirith as sort of a Constantinople. But then the Battle of Pelennor Fields in some ways resembles the Siege of Vienna in 1683, when Vienna was saved (in large part) by the charge of the Polish hussars. And Minas Tirith on Pelennor, like Vienna in 1683, survived the assault.

[Romeran]

I was thinking less about the Variags being related to whatever the Byzantine empire corollary is (Gondor in this case) and more about the linguistic mercenary aspect of it. That is, perhaps we should think of the Variags as a group of mercenaries either from Khand or (possibly more in line with the comparison to the Varangian Guard) rather from elsewhere but migrated to Khand.

A comparison do the Varangian Guard doesn't require that where they move to (Khand?) or with whom they align themselves (Sauron) need also be related to the Byzantine Empire, i.e. the analogy does not need to be a perfect map, in fact it almost never is. For example Gondor doesn't have to be Eastern Europe for the Wainriders to be compared to or inspired by the Mongols.

Sharing a linguistic origin around being mercenaries and (possibly, again as this is my assertion) being associated with a migrated band of mercenaries is more than sufficient, in my mind, to relate them to the Varangian Guard even if wherever they moved to (or came from) has nothing to do with the Byzantine empire (or Scandinavia).

[Chrysophylax Dives]

I am sorry that I can't put the relation together that Tolkien thought of Odin as a dim memory of Sauron and the Viking cult of Odin another marriage with necromancy. But maybe one of us around here can either say there is truth in that or not?

There is more to it than this one sentence from 'On Fairy-stories', but its a good start. Tolkien is talking about the story of Ingeld and Freawaru, the last Heathobard king and the Danish princess: “a tale of love… is more likely actually to happen in an historical family whose traditions are those of Golden Frey and the Vanir, rather than those of Odin the Goth, the Necromancer, glutter of the crows, Lord of the Slain” (OFS 47-8)

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: It is indeed a good start. I see where your quote comes from, and that has me doing some thinking. If Prof. Tolkien said it in this context he must indeed have a saying with it, as you're are interpreting. From it I cannot say for sure, but your feeling is not wrong at all I think. Odin is the Lord of the honourary Fallen in Valhalla and those sit at his table. With your given quote, and thanks for that!, I detect a bit of negative impression over it, for the three descriptions over his person behind his name. Tolkien's depiction towards Ingeld and Freawaru could be on the right path, and I see this reflected in the personal names of both 'lovers'. Yngvi is a much older name for Freyr, is proto-germanic of origin and a legendary ancestor of the Ingvaeones. And here is the name Ingeld derived from. Modern names are among Ingeborg, Ingrid, Ingvar, Ingmar etc.

In the area where this tale plays, is a great excavation site going on in the vicinity of Roskilde and is known there was an Iron and Viking age settlement very near the village Lejre. There is found among a Viking cementary including a few ship burials, an Iron Age cremation mound, amount of tumuli from the Bronze Age and several Neolithic chamber graves. Likely it has been the seat and cultural center of early Danish kings. After 1000AD when Christianity came to Denmark the capital moved to Roskilde and a cathedral was build. It is pretty all familiar to me, as my folks (native Dutch) chased for years on vacations after museums that had something of Scandinavian culture in the collection, including visiting old parts of towns and castles.

Edit: Yeah, I have confirmation from my sister we have been in Roskilde and thus likely visited Lejre as well.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Aiks. In his commentary on Beowulf (329 ff) Tolkien has this to say of the tale (both of Beowulf and of Ingeld of the Heathobards):

We touch in this conflict [Ingeld & Freawaru], and in the legends about it, on something very old and central to the nearly forgotten history of the Germanic North in heathen times. All but the final stages are already dim and remote in early Old English traditions. In Norse the whole matter has been confused and distorted by the adoption and 'Danification' of traditions that were not in origin Danish but belonged to the peninsula and island of what we may call (for lack of a better word) the Anglo-Frisian peoples, expelled or absorbed by the Danes in the early centuries of our era.

... In addition all that relates to the older heroic world has in Norse been overlaid and obscured by the specially Scandinavian sub-heroic or Viking-age. An age that was in many ways, though later, not an advance but a relapse into violence and barbarism: a triumph of Odin and the ravens, of bloodshed for its own sake, over the gods of corn and fruitfulness [the Vanir]....

The Heathobards are specially associated with peace. With the name of Froda [peace] is particularly joined. In the background of tradition lies the great peace in which there was corn in plenty and no war or robbery. [Fn: So it is said... that a gold ring lay for three years beside the highway.]...

Our story [Ingeld and Freawaru] refers to the time of the beginnings of Scandinavian expansion and trouble in the islands... the Heathobard story depicts the seizure of Seeland, the center of that world and the seat of its cult [Tolkien says elsewhere that Heorot was built by the Danes in Lejre on the site of the ancient temple - no wonder it was haunted by an ogre in the English imagination!]. And Seeland has remained ever since the heart of Denmark... It was not a religious war: the Odinic cults of Viking times (which now bulk so large in our imagination of the North) had hardly arisen. It was an attempt to seize the center of the Anglo-Frisian world, and to conquer it - and it succeeded, and was no doubt a prime factor in the westward migration [of the Angles and other tribes to the British Isles and surrounding regions].

... The Heathobards cannot be identical with the Lombards, who had already migrated far from the North in the second century B.C. But they may represent the people from whom the Langobards sprang.

And there is more...

I think Tolkien provides the 'original story' of the Great Peace of Frodo in his great tale of the end of the Third Age while the Heathobards are the last of the Numenorean kings.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Chrys: For his time Prof. Tolkien had a good sight on how Scandinavian culture was reviewed compared to the surrounding Northsea cultures on the British Isles, in the Low Lands and in northern Germany, developing in the sixth to eight century (?). Back then archeology wasn't that well advanced as it is now these days. Carbo-radiodating is a way to say how old almost precise a discovered artifact is, but that was discovered by 1949 and much later applied in archeology as a standard. Historians, paleontologists and archeologists of today come also with new insights on how all northsea cultures lived together and waged wars during the late antiquity and the first half of the Middle-Ages. And firm believe now exists that Beowulf is founded on people that really existed. But how exactly the scientists of today are still debating about. Legends and myths come from somewhere, they are from a base deep hidden in history. But as there is little documentation about those times, lots is obscured and very hard to pinpoint what is true in the legend and what is really mythology.

Sjaelland is indeed the biggest island in Denmark and since approximately 1000AD the Danish kings are buried in the Cathedral of Roskilde. On the time of the Beowulf poem, it is true that the Anglo-Saxon movements went just before the 'renaissance days' of the Vikings. That is what my new book of Harrison is about, the history of Western Europe, 375 -800. I learned a very little in my schooldays about that period. So it is very interesting to read about new groundbreaking insights how life really was back then.

I don't doubt you that Tolkien saw in the Beowulf legends, examples to how he imagined various characters for his stories, and how peoples from Beowulf represented/figured for the cultures in his stories. Personally I am not very interested in the perspective where the Hobbits stand. My focus lies more on the elves, and then connected to them in the West-European mythology. However on Frodo and his restlessness, is that he cannot find really peace of mind as long he stays in Middle Earth, so he has to leave, an inevitable thing he must do. It is a nice view on Tolkien he saw the Heathobards as a representing people for what later would be the isle of Numenor and the culture there.

Sidetracked from all of this, I know that among the Vikings were skalds who created heroic poems and sagas about brave warriors, but also journeys, feasts, disasters. And thus created oral history and I feel the Beowulf poem was a sort of saga also. Skalds existed not only among the Scandinavians, but also were a part of all northsea cultures at least, and have existed from the earliest of times in prehistory. The rhyming of Beowulf is very different of how we write poetry today. But as you speak it orally, then you discover that the second part of the line is the prelude to the first half of the new line below. This forms of poetry helps to memorise from the mind without having to write it down. Much of these northwest European cultures in the early middle ages did have an oral history. And reason why there are almost no written records found, then the runes carved in stones, metals and jewels and other utility items.

But still I am an amateur in this and no scholar of any kind. Understanding of Beowulf legend is for myself remembering how the northsea cultures perceived their world, and the whole pantheon of what we today see as mythology, was real to them. I see it here as kind of mental time-travel and actual take the story to you, as they would have back in the days in the early Middle-Ages. That is what I do when merging in characters living in other timeframes than my own. (That is how I came to the story of Jaeggin and Gávis and their troubles with climate-change, which bothers us today as well. And why I personally support also the energy transition to make more use of solar power than rely on delivered electricity and gas from the community.)

Thanks still! It was an inspiring discussion for me.