The Long and Short of RP--Thoughts, Please

[Eléowyn]

Obviously, many of us are excited to see the Plaza up and running again, and there's a flurry of activity in the RP forums. The question is, will it last, and what can we do to make it more likely that it will?

When the Plaza was first formed, it was in the middle of all the hype and excitement surrounding the LOTR movies, and there were thousands of active members. RP threads tended to move quickly (you could easily make many posts in the same thread within a few hours and not be spamming), with posts much shorter than later developed as the Plaza matured. Actually, at that time, it was almost a necessity for posts to be relatively short because if you hesitated long enough to write a long, well-thought-out post, a dozen other things would have happened in the meantime.

But as membership dwindled, and die-hard members began to use the RP threads for character development and to hone writing skills, posts became longer, more descriptive, more insightful. Now, one might say, participation in RP dwindled because membership dwindled, but one might also say that it was at times too cumbersome to write such detailed posts. While it worked well in RP threads where you might be interacting with only one or two characters, in other threads, such as pubs or battle threads, where you might be talking with any number of characters, having to read through 5, 10, or more long posts was quite time consuming.

So thus the question: How do we keep people interested in RP: with quick-moving, shorter-post RP, or with longer, more fleshed out posts? Or do we need a mix of both, depending on the nature of the thread? And do we provide guidelines to direct the length (I hesitate to say rules, as I'd love to see as few of those as possible), or do we just leave it to evolve naturally?

I honestly don't know the answer, I only know that I would love to see a lot of activity in the RP forums and not watch it die away again.

[SidraLockel Eltoran]

In the old days you had to wait for 2-3 people to post before you were allowed to post again. Are we still trying to follow that rule?

I feel like with people starting to RP again posts might be longer at first, but then there might be a better mixture as characters are reset-up.

[Moriel]

Some people like one, some people the other, some both. I think a mix of both is vital to keep interest and participation up!

The only threads I typically provide length guidance for in the OP are things like pubs and certain light-RP games, where you want a least a few lines of text to keep things moving- if it's long enough to get a point, it's long enough. Mostly that's really a hangover from the olden times when you might refresh and there would be twelve one line pub posts, which is super hard to respond to.

Alternately, in things like army training, I might ask a trainee to write a post that's a minimum of much longer, if we're trying to develop their long-form RP skills! And that's the thing, short and long form are related but different skills. And so is, as you pointed out, replying to a bunch of different people in a pub :smiley8:

In an RP like a military campaign or some kind of non-game adventure, I don't think I've ever had to intervene to ask someone to make their post longer- generally speaking, people write as much as they need to write to accomplish what they're trying to do. And as new RP'ers who tend to write shorter posts develop, the posts usually get longer. I feel mandating length in most of these type of situations (apart from long enough to get a point as a baseline) is a recipe for pressure and people not feeling like they can participate.

@SidraLockel Eltoran, Narv said on discord in response to this question yesterday that he doesn't care if you double post :smiley8: The rulers are asleep, go nuts (within reason I guess)

[SidraLockel Eltoran]

Moriel - great to know! Thank you!

[Eurie]

Well as a struggler in writing in general (just can't seem to write stories) it is quite the undertaking to have a lengty post. I try to add more depth to things then just be like Hey, what's up? . But it could be nice to have places where you can have shorter posts and others where the challenge is a longer post. So people who aren't that great or as self assured with writing can choose.
When I first joined here my english wasn't at this level and I was a shy teenager. The lengty posts were bit scary and made me not go to OOC to be fair. Doesn't mean this counts for everyone but that was my personal experience haha. :smiley8:

[Rivvy Elf]

Of course, once you get to a certain writing level, other tricks of the trade become available. Leaving out details and descriptions and only offering a few key details to let your reader’s imagination run free. Saying a lot by saying little. Focusing only on your character’s actions while hiding what they are thinking but showing it through subtle body language. Knowing when to elaborate or when not to.

RPing more like Tolkien and not like Martin would eventually be the goal. For Tolkien was a master at both the long, medium, and short of writing

[Yávië]

I love long, fleshed out, intricate RP posts and threads when I have time for long, fleshed out, intricate RPs. But most of us aren't teenagers anymore and this weird influx of free time a lot of us have got will taper off sooner or later.

So, as lockdown eases and people go back their regular, old people, responsible lives, I think it will be vital to have low barrier to entry RP threads and games scattered throughout the Kingdoms. Sure, I want to participate in complicated military campaigns, train in three different guilds, and run an IK racing league, but eventually it'll be better for the Plaza if we're realistic about what we can really commit to.

Variety is best, naturally! I want there to be a little bit of everything! But as weeks go by and content (hopefully) piles up I think it's important to always look at what's available in the Kingdoms and think "If I was buried in work or toddlers or home repairs* for two weeks and just got back, where would be the easiest place to jump in?" Of course, we'll all have different answers and opinions about that, and the non-RP games are also very relevant.

What I mean to say, I think, is that the trick to longevity might not be keeping people here full-time, but making it easy for them to come back. Something to consider as we (I say we, but I'm more of a tag along than an organizer ) plan and rebuild the kingdoms.

(*obligatory ugggggggggggggggggggh when did we get so old note )

[Winddancer]

If you are hating long posts, make a thread for short quickfire posts. If you hate the short posts, then make a thread for longer posts. Right now everyone can make any thread they want, so go for it! My feeling has always been quality over quantity. I would rather read a well worded short post than have to trawl through a long post full of boring stuff.

I think the trick to keeping this place active, is forgo the massive amount of forums that were impossible to fill and keep threads simple and easy to join in on (for now while we arent that many). A personal preference would also to not see a carbon copy of every game thread in every single forum, to me that is just uneccessary and spammy. If one kingdom has that game, then dont use it in others, instead go visit that kingdom and play that game there! That way we can also interact and see other kingdoms than our own all the time.

[Silky Gooseness]

personal preference would also to not see a carbon copy of every game thread in every single forum, to me that is just uneccessary and spammy. If one kingdom has that game, then dont use it in others, instead go visit that kingdom and play that game there! That way we can also interact and see other kingdoms than our own all the time.

Y E S! I’m all about this. Use it as an opportunity to create an NPC or wear really heavy disguise if it doesn’t chime well with your character - let’s be real, games are very rarely canon anyway.

[Veowyn]

I like the idea of shorter rp for pubs and games and longer for like the military rps and free rp and such. That's usually how I try to do it myself at least

[Reikon Suchi-ru]

I'm with @Veowyn on this one: I plan on shorter task-oriented RP for the games and longer posts for more involved activities. Really having different expectations for a variety of events is more reasonable, I think.

[Burnt Toast]

personal preference would also to not see a carbon copy of every game thread in every single forum, to me that is just uneccessary and spammy. If one kingdom has that game, then dont use it in others, instead go visit that kingdom and play that game there! That way we can also interact and see other kingdoms than our own all the time.

Y E S! I’m all about this. Use it as an opportunity to create an NPC or wear really heavy disguise if it doesn’t chime well with your character - let’s be real, games are very rarely canon anyway.

I'm still finishing reading this thread but wanted to add now that THIS is an excellent and useful point. Shenanigans! Cross Kingdom interactions! We definitely don't need to double up like that, and what a great way to meet some new people and characters.


EDIT: hahahaha omg I was on mobile so literally didn't see that there were only two posts more to read. Could have just waited and finished reading. Impatient lil toast I am. XD

[Lealnemarr]

I used to write super involved RPs and lengthy posts...but to be completely honest, I've quite lost that knack of creative writing so it's taken me a bit to get back in. We're also still gathering steam and members so we have to wait for replies or you know interactions. But I think a mix of in-depth and quick writing is good. I definitely would like some fun RP things to help boost things along.

Unlike 10+ years ago, I have a full-time job and kids so timing is also short which poses issues but, we'll make it work :)

[Oro]

Yea, I think that short thoughtful RP posts are better suited for a lot of the threads on the plaza. I understand that in Gondor you will still only see huge posts for the most part, but that’s normal there. The people that love long posts (like myself sometimes) can keep doing it, but I plan on making short fun little RP posts so that more people can be involved and can interact without reading a book a day.

[Eléowyn]

Saying a lot by saying little. Focusing only on your character’s actions while hiding what they are thinking but showing it through subtle body language. Knowing when to elaborate or when not to.

Thank you for that. This is something I need to self-critique. I tend to start writing all about what my character is thinking. When I catch myself, I try to correct. But too often I have let it get by. I am going to try and take your advice going forward.

There are so many good observations here. Hopefully we can all be mindful of doing our little bit to keep things fliwing by following some of these suggestions.

[Veowyn]

@Lealnemarr yes! The kids make writing time shorter, so sometimes posts reflect that! I'm totally feeling that right now, too

[Fairy Nuff]

100% this - different posting styles and lengths suit different thread types, different people and different times. If we start putting limits on posting everywhere people will either stop participating in those threads and look for shorter post requirements elsewhere, or will stop participating completely. Lets have a mixture, people can vote with their feet (and things that are popular will keep running).

For example - I've had so many responses to Mad Libs in the Shire that I've had to completely redo my 'schedule' for posting updates, and now I am hunting round for more passages to use so I can keep it going a bit longer. That was unexpected.

[Dimcairien Luiniel]

The different posting styles/requirements for different threads makes a lot of sense. It makes sense to keep them to a reasonable length of more than a sentence or two, but no crazy long requirements, unless it is a special thread like army training where you do need to make longer posts.

@Fairy Nuff That's because Mad Libs is so much fun! I'd be happy to find some passages if that is ever helpful.

[Eldrith]

I could talk on this subject for hours, considering I've roleplayed for 20 plus years now, both board and html. A requirement that posts need to be over a certain amount of characters is good as long as that requirement is low (like three or four lines). In the old plaza, some people really cared about points so one of hte reasons was to avoid people posting four posts to reply to four different people in the same thread.
I think with no longer thousands of members, it's possible to keep threads going as long as there are not too many threads. I would say that outside of mainstays (cavalries, armies, pubs, markets etc.) it's a good idea not to have so much threads where too few people play. On the other hand if someone has a wonderful idea that's not something to be stiffled either.

@Eléowyn I have an idea, that I just passed by @Shivased . I am not sure if I have you on facebook or not? I've tried adding you on discord. If not: Eva Bogaerts on FB.

[Eléowyn]

@Eldrith Yes I should be on your friend list on FB. At least you’re on mine. It would be as Julie Daniel.

I’ve downloaded discord and think I’ve joined the plaza group, but I don’t really go there.

You know that’s you can open any thread you like, as long as it’s appropriate, right?

[Eldrith]

@Eléowyn gah, dumb moment! I couldn't find you because I spelled it July!

And I know... But I like to pick brains. And be nice. Mostly. Always. I am a delicate flower.

[Eléowyn]

@Eldrith I’m not falling for that delicate flower line.

[Narv]

If one kingdom has that game, then dont use it in others, instead go visit that kingdom and play that game there! That way we can also interact and see other kingdoms than our own all the time.

Just want to add that I also support this very much

[Shivased]

I like the idea of a mix of post styles and lengths.

I tend to base my post length and depth off the thread I'm in or how many people I'm RPing with. Cavalry campaigns and stuff need longer, more in-depth posts, while pub and marketplace tend not to. On the same note, if I'm with a lot of people, like right now in the pub in Rohan, I'm going to write longer posts because there are like, 5 or 6 of us right now. If it was just me and one or two people I'd write much shorter. So it all depends.

As the original plaza was slowing, in the WM we tried to make life easier on people by providing a variety of threads and opportunities for different RP styles. I think in the long-run, keeping things going will be a big mix of these things. Not having repeat threads in every kingdom, and a mix of threads allowing for long and short threads, a mix of structured and free RP. Given we are all older now, with jobs, families and all that to worry about, that gives us the chance to jump in when we can and do what we can. We don't have to worry about not having time for long, thought out and descriptive posts.

[Lirimaer]

What I mean to say, I think, is that the trick to longevity might not be keeping people here full-time, but making it easy for them to come back.

I support people not leaving. Including me - since I usually have a very busy RL.

[Uruva]

I was never much of an RPer and I had to torture myself to fit into the typical RP threads. I doubt I'll do much RPing, if any, on the new plaza unless there is a game I'm interested in that requires it so I don't know how much my thoughts are worth here. Nonetheless, I think short and casual should be the assumption, with longer and more complex posts being special threads that require it (or for you crazy Tarks, bless your hearts).

[Oak]

I write as a hobby, so I don't like the expend too much of my energy doing RP. But RP is what helped me hone my writing skill.

[Eriol]

I usually enjoy making detailed posts and intricate histories which strongly entwine with the lives of other members like Moriel, Aerlinn, Rivvy, Ercassie, and Veowyn. My creativity has just been so molded by high fantasy and my time in Old Plaza Minas Tirith.

But... I will try... to write shorter RP posts while keeping plots still interesting on this New Plaza. I'll keep lengthy detailed posts confined to character profiles and my own solo writing though.

[Moriel]

@Aigronding Mordagnir No one is saying you can't keep writing the long involved posts you love to write! That's just not what works for everyone universally, or in every situation. You probably wouldn't write 3000 words in Thief Hunt, for instance :smiley8:

[Eriol]

I should do that just to make you laugh, Moriel, Lol!!

[Narv]

I remember doing exactly that a couple times back in the day purely to be annoying

[Rivvy Elf]

Maybe it's time for the 10,000 word caption

[Uruva]

I definitely don't want to discourage avid RPers and creative writers! There should absolutely be a place for that (multiple places for that!). My comments were meant to be more general, that people should be able to safely assume that casual and short RP would be welcome unless otherwise specified.

[Winddancer]

@Uruva I have deliberately not added a point limit to the threads I have made, except the Army, cause that leveling system is based on the posts. I would rather people post and have fun, than them worry that they cannot meet a certain amount. We just need to have fun! Evil fun..

[Ult]

Let's just have fun as long as it lasts. I made very long posts, and I mean very long ones, and I could make a lot of silly ones, and in reality, most people liked the last ones the most. But a lot of rules would eventually come on the Plaza, and administrators and all that. And then I had to discuss, and mail, and talk on what was it called, forever. It took me hours. And eventually posts would be deleted because it was not according the rules, and that really was like: "Curiosity killed the cat". Now I'm older, and for now I feel a trickle of excitement once again to see some I have fond memories of, and I and they might be gone again within a few weeks. So for now, please no rules and do this and that. I never cared about the points. I met some really nice people here once. We are all grown ups, much older by now, so let me/us go for a while, please!

[Dis]

I like character development and story. I enjoy the composing of a post. Dunno how many people enjoy the reading of them.

I have more time than I used to because my kids are all grown now and my time is mostly my own. I may be old but I don't like a whole lot of rules. Just basic, don't be a jerk type ones is plenty.

[Istya Alassea]

Once lockdown restrictions ease around the world, all of our free time will start going "out the window" again. So some OOC posting should be allowed, as well as approved short post threads in the right places where interest may be dwindling. However, wherever you see die hards, I think posts should meet a certain character or length requirement - like a minimum requirement of two hundred words so that other people that are posting would know how to interact with you and be able to develop the story. But I have also seen posts that get crazy long, and very few people would want to read those. So that's something else to think about.

[Arnyn]

Hahahahaaa! An eggo has been found!

Ancalagon edit: Nuh uh!

[Hanasian]

Once lockdown restrictions ease around the world, all of our free time will start going "out the window" again. So some OOC posting should be allowed, as well as approved short post threads in the right places where interest may be dwindling. However, wherever you see die hards, I think posts should meet a certain character or length requirement - like a minimum requirement of two hundred words so that other people that are posting would know how to interact with you and be able to develop the story. But I have also seen posts that get crazy long, and very few people would want to read those. So that's something else to think about.

Of course, at the other end of the spectrum, us old folk's kids are all out doing life and we retire and find we have a lot more time to play around with roleplaying and story-writing.

Personally, my preferred style is a few paragraphs ranging anywhere from a couple hundred to maybe a thousand words. I can do the novella posts, but sometimes 'chapter' posts are a bit tough for others to read through.