So Queen Beruthiel had a lot of cats, right? Do we know
a) how many?
And b) what were their names?
without much thought, what about Purrwen or Meowiel? Anyone have thoughts?
A very impurrtant question
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Ent Ancient
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Bard of Imladris
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Beruthiel despised the cats if I recall. So their names were probably "Dog," "Rat," and "Meneldil."
Hmm, I believe under the maximum amount of cats to not capsize a boat, which could be quite a lot, mrao.
Hmm, I believe under the maximum amount of cats to not capsize a boat, which could be quite a lot, mrao.
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I don't recall anything about what they were named, but I'm fairly sure she had a total of ten cats. There were nine black cats and one white. 
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost.
The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not touched by the frost.
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NO! She didn't!? That's hard to believe for someone with so many cats...though maybe not since cats love people who don't pay them any attention!
a follow up question to your proposed number of cats, @Rivvy Elf, is: do all the cats have fur? or are some of them hairless? that would likely impact the total # of cats and mass that could capsize the boat...
@Ercassie - ten cats and not one of them named! the shame of it.
a follow up question to your proposed number of cats, @Rivvy Elf, is: do all the cats have fur? or are some of them hairless? that would likely impact the total # of cats and mass that could capsize the boat...
@Ercassie - ten cats and not one of them named! the shame of it.
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Some cats are hairless, yes. Good point @Lail Bo Peep! It would indeed affect the total amount of cats and mass that could capsize the boat. But as @Ercassie, pointed out, there were 10 cats. So unless they were well-fed (which has a lower-than-average probability due to Queen Beruthiel disliking the cats, and fat cats do not necessarily make the best spies), they probably don't capsize the boat. But then again, I have not done any research on cat weight to back that up.
Here's the full relevant quote from the 1966 interview between Daphne Castell and J.R.R Tolkien:
"Well, Berúthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it — she was a black Númenorean in origin, I guess). She was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about — you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I have a friend like that. I’m afraid she took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them — trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them."
So unless torturing them meant feeding them too much food, I believe they would've been rather skinny and fleet-footed.
Here's the full relevant quote from the 1966 interview between Daphne Castell and J.R.R Tolkien:
"Well, Berúthiel went back to live in the inland city, and went to the bad (or returned to it — she was a black Númenorean in origin, I guess). She was one of these people who loathe cats, but cats will jump on them and follow them about — you know how sometimes they pursue people who hate them? I have a friend like that. I’m afraid she took to torturing them for amusement, but she kept some and used them — trained them to go on evil errands by night, to spy on her enemies or terrify them."
So unless torturing them meant feeding them too much food, I believe they would've been rather skinny and fleet-footed.
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I believe she was put on a ship, not a boat. It would be doubtful that ten cats could capsize a ship, eh?
...and that King Tarannon had her set on a ship alone with her cats and set adrift on the sea before a north wind. The ship was last seen flying past Umbar under a sickle moon, with a cat at the masthead and another as a figure-head on the prow. UT
The world was fair in Durin's Day.
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So did I not submit my Beruthiel poem properly or has it been removed? If the latter then I apologise for posting it if 0yu all felt it unsuitably placed.
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@Sarailei - did you post it in this thread or elsewhere recently? we admins have not deleted any of your recent posts! The only one I see from you in the last couple of days is your post above asking about your poem. I'd very much like to see a Beruthiel poem if you want to share it! 
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oh bother, I meant @Saranna so sorry!! (ironically had a cat on my lap which made it harder to type 
)
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Oh bother - failed posting. Will try again as you would like to see it:
The Cats’ Revenge
The cats of Queen Beruthiel
Surge homeward through the night,
Soft-flowing as Mitheithel
In gorges hid from light.
Silent they pad, each head held low,
Their glowing eyes of beryl
Deep-filled with hatred burning slow
That spells the cruel Queen’s peril.
From feline mind to mind thoughts fly
Of scratches deeply bleeding
Of white teeth rending, royal cries
For mercy – all unheeding.
The black tide sweeps into the hall
Where stands the exile’s throne.
Each struggles to resist her call
But, bound to her alone
They cower at her cruel feet,
Who through the lengthening years
Has tortured them with cold and heat
And laughed at all their tears.
Tonight, tonight, each longs in thought
Why should we not – but see!
Her probing mind cuts longing short
And by her magic she
Drags from within each prisoned soul
The secrets they have seen,
Then waves a careless finger, “Go!
There’s naught here for a Queen!”
Beside her sits Elaan the White,
With glittering amber eyes
Absorbing her companions’ plight
And pitying their cries.
Across the jet-dark marble floor
She follows, skittering down
The dingy backstairs paw by paw
To find them gathered round
Their scanty bowls of broken meats
And water fouled with grease;
She leaps into a kitchen seat,
And hisses “Let this cease!
The wicked Queen enthrals us all
And we are far from home
Dragged unresisting by her call
Across the sea’s pearled foam.
Tis she has made us enemies,
My black and comely friends!
Unite with me, and so with ease
We’ll tempt her to her end!”
Eighteen green flashes in the dark
Are turned upon her now;
She blinks at them, an amber spark,
And hears them growl “How?”
Leaping among them, Elaan seems
A pearl in velvet set.
Old grievances die quick as dreams –
They’ll have their vengeance yet!
Heads push together, purrs arise,
As cunning plans are formed,
And deep behind the jewel eyes
The Witch-Queen’s end is born.
Next morning when the sun shines bright
Upon the exile’s hall
The captive cats of darkest night,
They come not to her call.
“Brute beasts!” she howls, and hastens down
The sweeping marble stairs,
Where midway, as the curve swings round,
The plotters have their lairs.
Seven, eight, nine, ten – the cats spring up
And claw her flowing gown;
She tumbles. rolling, bouncing – thump!
Slowly they all slink down.
A caterwaul of feline joy
Echoes about the walls;
The Queen lies like a broken toy
And silence slowly falls.
The shining eyes glance to and fro,
Deep with new living hope
“It’s over, over, now we go!”
They vanish then – like smoke.
The Cats’ Revenge
The cats of Queen Beruthiel
Surge homeward through the night,
Soft-flowing as Mitheithel
In gorges hid from light.
Silent they pad, each head held low,
Their glowing eyes of beryl
Deep-filled with hatred burning slow
That spells the cruel Queen’s peril.
From feline mind to mind thoughts fly
Of scratches deeply bleeding
Of white teeth rending, royal cries
For mercy – all unheeding.
The black tide sweeps into the hall
Where stands the exile’s throne.
Each struggles to resist her call
But, bound to her alone
They cower at her cruel feet,
Who through the lengthening years
Has tortured them with cold and heat
And laughed at all their tears.
Tonight, tonight, each longs in thought
Why should we not – but see!
Her probing mind cuts longing short
And by her magic she
Drags from within each prisoned soul
The secrets they have seen,
Then waves a careless finger, “Go!
There’s naught here for a Queen!”
Beside her sits Elaan the White,
With glittering amber eyes
Absorbing her companions’ plight
And pitying their cries.
Across the jet-dark marble floor
She follows, skittering down
The dingy backstairs paw by paw
To find them gathered round
Their scanty bowls of broken meats
And water fouled with grease;
She leaps into a kitchen seat,
And hisses “Let this cease!
The wicked Queen enthrals us all
And we are far from home
Dragged unresisting by her call
Across the sea’s pearled foam.
Tis she has made us enemies,
My black and comely friends!
Unite with me, and so with ease
We’ll tempt her to her end!”
Eighteen green flashes in the dark
Are turned upon her now;
She blinks at them, an amber spark,
And hears them growl “How?”
Leaping among them, Elaan seems
A pearl in velvet set.
Old grievances die quick as dreams –
They’ll have their vengeance yet!
Heads push together, purrs arise,
As cunning plans are formed,
And deep behind the jewel eyes
The Witch-Queen’s end is born.
Next morning when the sun shines bright
Upon the exile’s hall
The captive cats of darkest night,
They come not to her call.
“Brute beasts!” she howls, and hastens down
The sweeping marble stairs,
Where midway, as the curve swings round,
The plotters have their lairs.
Seven, eight, nine, ten – the cats spring up
And claw her flowing gown;
She tumbles. rolling, bouncing – thump!
Slowly they all slink down.
A caterwaul of feline joy
Echoes about the walls;
The Queen lies like a broken toy
And silence slowly falls.
The shining eyes glance to and fro,
Deep with new living hope
“It’s over, over, now we go!”
They vanish then – like smoke.
Remembering halfir by learning something new each day
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Mahal
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That is a nice twist on Queen Beruthiel's demise, @Saranna. 
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Ent Ancient
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that was spectacular, @Saranna thank you for sharing!
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Well those kind responses have made me purr! :) Thank you so much.
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@Saranna I love that poem!!
I always did wonder what Tolkien had against cats.
Re cats capsizing a boat: I seem to remember reading about various customs that it was important to have a cat on board (presumably to keep down the rats). Ten might be overkill, though
I always did wonder what Tolkien had against cats.
Re cats capsizing a boat: I seem to remember reading about various customs that it was important to have a cat on board (presumably to keep down the rats). Ten might be overkill, though
cave anserem
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Thanks @Silky Gooseness glad you liked it. Since a big healthy rat can kill a cat, if I were a shipowner I might have invested in plenty of cats for every journey!
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