The Hall of Barad-dûr: Mordor OOC II

[The Good Hunter]

Well done Aik! I like the train tracks you're laying down right now

[Lady of Shadow]

It seems like Ormiak was killed by Lathana after all. Read my post to find out more. Naelia's probably regretting leaving him behind now.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Hey! Welcome in the fold! I read your post, it is good.

[The Good Hunter]

Looks quite good @Lady of Shadow!

We shall now await the pleasure of the Chaos Goose

[Aikári Salmarinian]

I have an idea that we are going to have some good fun with those Sulphurus Spirits.

[The Good Hunter]

I think so too Aik! I'm glad your enjoying it so far

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Shall we still continue our RP on the Sulphurus Ghosts?

[The Good Hunter]

Aik, we should. I was waiting on the others do some posting but that might not happen (and there's nothing wrong with that). If it's just the two of us I think that is absolutely fine.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Hoi @Ephtariat, you still here? What do you say to a legal case on a point of Lore in the Halls of Injustice in Mordor? Take a look. I have in mind bringing charges against you for writing a post on Lore that was far too long and demanding it be edited by you into one paragraph. You are surely aware of the post we are talking about. However, I am open to disputes over many other points of Lore - we could even return to those neutral angels. My primary concern, so you understand, is to generate paperwork for the Halls of Injustice as part of a long-running campaign to obtain justice (on and) for the Dwarf who penned *the* plaza riddle - the bearded one whom you know as @Drifa.
Let me know.

[Ephtariat]

Hi @Hill. I object to your charge that if one has interest in the topic one should really try and focus and read the whole thing.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Sounds good. Don't expect instant legal fireworks. I have to prepare the paperwork and bribe before returning to the Halls of Injustice. But I have a sense of what is required now so it will not be too long. I'll let you know.

[Ephtariat]

Looking forward to your paperwork.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Silky Gooseness, while the next injustice court case is in preparation, do you wish to input any preferences on topic, bribe, other?

[Silky Gooseness]

Anything goes I think our case has been substantially delayed mostly by the lack of Dwarf. We could substitute an NPC for the Dwarf, of course, if you like?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Anything goes I think our case has been substantially delayed mostly by the lack of Dwarf. We could substitute an NPC for the Dwarf, of course, if you like?

Possibly I have been unclear. The case of the Dwarf is awaiting the Lore Goose to rule up in Lore. The purpose of these cases unfolding down here in Mordor is not to arrange trial for the Dwarf but to pressure the powers that be by paperwork overload to make the ruling in Lore.

I would be quite happy with NPC Dwarfs in the Halls of Injustice. Do we have to work out how many in advance?

Pah! Enough of such small talk. I return to work on the bribe (no footnotes for another month so I have to be creative).

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Ephtariat, I have to warn you that we are stepping into a strange new world. This is called 'Role Playing' and they take it real serious here - far more seriously than they take discussion in Lore. Here is the plaza Role Playing Code of Conduct. If you have any questions, I am absolutely not the person to ask - my sole experience was a perilous turn in the Halls of Injustice just now. (I got hit by lightning and only escaped in the end because @Silky Gooseness is an expert and gifted me an exit.) So I'm going to take the liberty of pinging the Ranger Admin.

@Arnyn, I know you are very busy but could Ephtariat and myself call on you with questions and/or legal advice? Also, as we were having a good discussion about lust and greed and cream cakes some while back, any thoughts on a bit of that we could return to? (If you pick the subject I'll scour Ephtariat's posts and work out a legal disagreement.)

[Arnyn]

@Hill 1) Questions about role playing? Or in character questions? Or both?!
2) Yum. Cream cakes. Do I get a bribe too? (Hint: cream cakes) And are you asking if I think there is a bit in there you could use for a court case?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Hill 1) Questions about role playing? Or in character questions? Or both?!
2) Yum. Cream cakes. Do I get a bribe too? (Hint: cream cakes) And are you asking if I think there is a bit in there you could use for a court case?

1) Questions about role playing. So far as I can make out the golden rule concerns god-moding, which sounds awesomely mysterious from the outside, but actually makes sense inside as a simple rule of non-control of other people's characters. Is that kind of right?

But also maybe you could give @Ephtariat some pointers about what to expect in the Halls of Injustice?

2. Yeah, I was asking if we could use a bit for a court case. But if that sounds like mixing chalk and cheese I am more than happy to press charges for the length of my colleague's post on the Tolkien and women thread in Lore. I mean, it is simply not possible to read it all through and remember the first part by the time you are finished! And it starts with Zoroastrianism or something like that. Hell, if you are going to go that far back, why not start with the Garden of Eden or the evolution of life out of the water or out of the trees?

But honestly, I can make an argument out of anything so do feel free to put forward any suggestions.

On the bribe. I certainly will take your wishes into consideration. I am actually making a distinction (based on my local culture) between bribes and gifts. The bribe is the official bit but I was going to give the goblin secretary an additional gift and it should be no problem to harvest some more of those vulture eggs.

Thank you!

[Arnyn]

1) Non-control and non-assumption, I would say, yes, mr @Hill . Like no stating someone's eyes are grey when they have not written that themselves. Etc. And if you're in a fight with someone, it would be like... it's okay to say you launch a hit at someone, but that someone is to determine whether the hit lands. Oft times roleplayers might speak behind the scenes to agree on a thing or two as to move things forward a bit more quickle - then it's usually added to the post somewhere that the other character's writer gave permission to do this or that.

As to what to expect... difficult to say, really. The Halls of Injustice are simply terribly injust and willy nily. I'd wish @Ephtariat and yurself good luck, but tell you to expect none!

2) Sounds to me like a court case about too long a post is just the thing for the Halls of Injustice. Not sure what you might make an argument out of with the lust/greed thing, though that by no means should be taken to imply that I doubt your ability to do so. What seems like the most fun to you?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Hold on, @Arnyn, @Silky Gooseness, @Ephtariat, are we supposed to set up our characters before we begin?

Sorry, I already started. Not sure if this character bit is required or where i should write it. But basically for me real life and role playing are one and the same - i am a senior partner in a Hobbit solicitors in Undertowers, with extensive experience representing delinquent Hobbits and miscreat Dwarves. Given that the case against the Dwarf in Lore arose through my own oversight and negligence, I feel a professional obligation to pressure Mordor via paperwork to send someone up to Lore to settle the riddle case - hence the present case against my (on rare occasion) overly-verbose friend and colleague, Ephtariat.

Anything else I should say? Obviously, I am a Hobbit.

[Arnyn]

You don't have to pre-establish anything! It's all in the way you want to go about it. Post info only, or with additional things agreed on OOC - which is only possible if all concerned parties agree. @Hill

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Thank you, @Arnyn, that makes sense - I was wondering how a Hobbit from Undertowers can be complaining about the length of a Lore post.

On another note, I have been looking in the face the reality that the present direction of this campaign to free the Dwarf is unlikely to deliver results. I don't feel it likely to exert any real pressure on the Mordor judicial authorities. I'll see this current case through to the end and then reconsider the plan. Possibly I need to switch the campaign to putting Dwarvish justice on the table as a burning issue at the next admin elections.

[Ephtariat]

I used to roleplay once, but it was table roleplay, and I was the dungeon master. They told me I was pretty good at that.

Now, can I be an Elf?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Ephtariat Why not step up by my side in the Towers of the Teeth before the goblin secretary? I am happy to prosecute an Elf. More than.

For the record, the name of my Undertowers legal practice, of which I am a senior partner, is Hill, Hill, & Hill.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

There is an evil genius in this design. The mix of Mordor and institutions that means that all the DM has to do is invite victims to step inside and sign up, and then simply by doing nothing at all they begin to understand that they have fallen into the trap. I am reminded of that Orc they speak of who Shelob hung up on some web intending a late night snack and then forgot about.

@Ephtariat, I obviously could not say what the judge would say to your defence, for that would be god-moding, but I do wonder when the last time was that anyone in this place actually read the Red Book. If you invoked the movies you might have a better shot. For further legal advice, talk to me down in Gondolin.

[Ephtariat]

@Hill If it's the Halls of Injustice, I wonder whether there is anything at all that I might say that could not be turned against me. But then again, if I say unjust things, is that going to win me the favor of the judge?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

@Hill If it's the Halls of Injustice, I wonder whether there is anything at all that I might say that could not be turned against me. But then again, if I say unjust things, is that going to win me the favor of the judge?

That is the kind of question for the Gondolin legal office, Ephtariat. Or you could ask @Arnyn here (and she does not charge).

[Chrysophylax Dives]

It is a depressing fact how much of life is spent waiting for institutions to move, in real life and here on the plaza. while we are waiting, i'll tell you a story of Nasrin Hodja, of whom many fine stories are told in Turkey and beyond.

In the teahouse in the village of Nasrin Hodja, a travelling merchant was boasting that he could beat anyone at practical jokes. Nasrin Hodja dissented, and the result was a wager - a bag of gold for whoever could first pull a practical joke on the other. Nasrin Hodja announced that we was returning home to pick up something, that the man should wait for he would return in 10 minutes to play his practical joke. An hour later, when he had still not returned, the merchant admitted that he had been had. He was shown the way to Nasrin Hodja's house and, as the window was open, threw a bag of gold in through the window.

Nasrin Hodja was lying on his bed trying to think up a practical joke when the bag of gold landed on his stomach. 'God is good' he said, 'now if I cannot think up anything I can at least pay off my debt.'

[Arnyn]

@Hill

@Ephtariat All bets are off, all logic is gone. Perhaps the judge will side with the one who is logical. Perhaps the judge will side with the one who is emotional. No one knows. My guess is the judge would not want to side with either!

You must try and crawl into the sick mind of what might just possibly pass for a Mordorian justice system. And try and play it to your advantage.

[Ephtariat]

@Arnyn @Hill I think you will like what I did in the Halls.

[Arnyn]

Oh, not bad at all, @Ephtariat

[Ephtariat]

@Arnyn thanks.

[Ephtariat]

Also, another story of Nasrin Hodja goes:

The town square was crowded for market day.

Then, all of a sudden, Nasrin came galloping through the square on his donkey. It looked like he was about to fall off, barely holding onto the reins with one hand while struggling to keep his turban on with the other.

Nobody had ever seen Nasrin or his donkey move this fast!

“Hey there, Nasrin!” yelled one of his friends as Nasrin rode by. “Just where are you going in such a hurry?”

Nasrin shouted a reply as the donkey galloped past. “I honestly don’t know! You need to ask the donkey!”

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Good Nasrin Hodga story.

@Ephtariat, just to point out that you are addressing the goblin secretary, not the judge. Or at least I think so. We need to get sent into a court room before we even begin.

Do you know the Nasrin Hodga story about when he was cutting wood up a tree?

[Ephtariat]

@Hill Can't say I do!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Nasrin Hodja was sitting on the branch of a tree, sawing off the branch. He was sawing the branch between himself and the trunk of the tree. A man walking past called up to him: 'If you keep on sawing that branch you will fall out of the tree!' Nasrin Hodja had no time for fools and told the man to be on his way.

Some while later the branch snapped and together with Nasrin Hodja crashed to the ground. Picking himself up, Nasrin Hodja understood that a prophet or even an angel had crossed his path. He mounted his donkey and made to catch up with the man. When he reached the man, Nasrin Hodja begged to know more of the future. The man was regretting ever speaking, but Nasrin Hodja knew that this was a once in a lifetime moment and would not let up. 'At least tell me this', he implored, 'tell me when I am going to die?' And so, to get rid of Nasrin Hodja, the man said, 'You will die when your donkey brays three times. Now leave me alone.'

Nasrin Hodja was devastated. He led his donkey home as gently as he could but, soon enough, the donkey brayed. Then a second time. Finally, not so far from his village, the donkey brayed a third time. 'I must now be dead', said Nasrin Hodja, and so lay down on the road and stopped moving.

Some hours later Nasrin Hodja's wife got worried and eventually summoned a crowd from the village to look for her husband. They found him soon enough, and brought the terrible news that Nasrin Hodja was dead. The whole village came out to take his body to the cemetery.

On the way to the cemetry the road branched. Both forks led to the cemetery, and for time out of mind it had been argued in the village tea house which way was the shorter. Nasrin Hodja took the minority view, but as he was dead the village took the other road.

Nasrin Hodja jumped up and shouted at all the rest of his village that they were fools who would never learn.

[Ephtariat]

@Hill

[Silky Gooseness]

I feel almost as though I ought to recuse myself but finding another judge willing to wade into this is proving difficult. Alas, you may be left with goosiness

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Well, I must say that a bribe of 111 mixed-breed huorns really should get us the goose, the whole goose, and nothing but the goose. But, I'd also be happy with the duck.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Back to the chit-chat. @Ephtariat, I must say that your Tolkien activities seem to bring you into frequent contact with the JBC, a gatekeeper to avoid, I would have thought.

Speaking of Mordor, I was reflecting that I have no idea what to expect if and when the Halls of Injustice open. So I wished to take the opportunity to say it was good of you to join me, and I hope we both come out alive.

[Ephtariat]

Hey, you know, @Hill, who would have thought I would die side by side with a hill?

[Ephtariat]

About JBC: publications in Mythlore are especially valued in Italy. It is the only Tolkien journal that is formally acknowledged by the Government. Every article gives you a bonus if you apply for a PhD, a teaching position, etc. Even Tolkien Studies does not.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

About JBC: publications in Mythlore are especially valued in Italy. It is the only Tolkien journal that is formally acknowledged by the Government. Every article gives you a bonus if you apply for a PhD, a teaching position, etc. Even Tolkien Studies does not.

That just says everything that is wrong with academic Tolkien studies. Yuk.

I'm running out of small talk.

[Ephtariat]

You know, it seems I might actually manage to get a PhD... I've not even applied yet, but I'm optimistic. There are 3 Professors, two of whom are Emeriti, one of whom is Verlyn Flieger, who said I might be on the right train, so...

[Chrysophylax Dives]

That is very good news. Verlyn Flieger would ultimately be sympathetic to your work, I would guess.

You know, I saw your line about the end of the road with a Hill, and resisted. You give me no choice, but I worry about location - we are in Mordor and the words of Celebrimbor above the western gate of Moria serve to warn us off certain words.

Still, it is good to walk in to the Halls of Injustice with a friend. Who knows what awaits? We are in a realm where fair is fowl and fowls are fair.

[Ephtariat]

I have to post it in What you are listening to, but I spoil for you it is "You can't always get what you want" by the Stones. I think it applies because it is good to be with a friend, not so good being in Mordor, but perhaps in the long run "you got what you need".

[Chrysophylax Dives]

I posted a musical reply. In the meanwhile, readers of this thread please note that a new post on the Fairbairns of Undertowers is out, with an Undertowers illustration by @Drifa.

I have now completed 3 of the 4 intended 'plaza posts' in this Seeing Stones series. These arise from questions and engagement from plaza members on my Guide to Stairs last summer - primarily @Silky Gooseness. The last one is the Map that I promised the Goose many moons ago, and this will also (I hope - it is not yet written) reveal the never hitherto perceived relationship of Beowulf and LotR. Had I not posted the Guide to Stairs on the plaza, it is true that I might have found life a little easier over the last few months (only a little, as my underlying problems have nothing to do with the plaza), but I would never have arrived at the point that I have now reached, from where I can propose a hitherto unseen reading of the LotR.

I spell this out for a reason, @Ephtariat. There are not so many posters here on the plaza these days. But some of the few who remain really know their stuff at a deep level, and if one finds a way to engage with them their comments can be amazingly helpful. (Don't be misled by what they say, they have the books inside them better than they know!) That is why it is worth taking a 3000 word thesis and working out how to present it so people can readily engage with it.

[Ephtariat]

I don't know, I still kind of think that things should be properly put out, not reduced to their bulk.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Well, that is why we are here. Waiting for the judge...

Also, @Ephtariat, if you are indeed an Elf why not go to your profile, click 'edit' then select 'change kindgom/rank'? Then you can look like an Elf too.

[Ephtariat]

Thanks!