Rings of Power Season 2 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Hanasian]

There doesn't seem to be any episode discussion threads being posted for S2 like there was for S1, so I'll just throw up a thread for it and post a review I wrote.


I've now watched up to Ep6, and as much as I see some great parts in this series, I keep getting let down by some seriously lazy writing. This goes especially for Ep4 & Ep6. All the weak quotes of lines from the PJ movies that used quotes from the books for different characters, and the seeming duplication of some crappy scenes in PJ's movies....

The producers are clearly trying to do too much with the time they have. After hoping for better for this odd story arc of S1, I think the whole Harfoot/Stranger/Stoors/Dark-cult wizard story is a big waste of screen time. I've pretty much lost interest in them and what happens to them. To a lesser extent, the Theo/Arondir spur. It was ok for the 1st season, but I think it's just a minor distraction in the 2nd.

Another weakness is what they have done with Galadriel. The first season had me scratching my head over her, but I could see where she may have been a bit headstrong. But WTF did they do to her this season? She seems to be as easily manipulated and has become a sideshow elf. Telling Adar everything? Really?? No. The more the show goes on, the dumber she is looking. I do hope for some redemption in her storyline.

Let's get to the good. The strength of the series is clearly the core story arc and especially the Halbarad/Annatar/Sauron character played by Charlie Vickers. He has yet to really disappoint. Cunning and manipulative... of just about everyone... except for the Númenórean smith guild dudes, this portrayal of Sauron is the best part of the series in my opinion. As harsh as I was on the casting of Charles Edwards as Celebrimbor, I have to say he is bringing his A-game to the script (such as it is), and the interaction between he and Annatar is quite good. Add to it the dwarves and especially the interaction between the two Durins, and Durin IV and Disa; it makes the series.

My surprise S2 performance of an original character would be Mirdania played by Amelia Kenworthy. It was always assumed (by me at least) from reading what little there is of Celebrimbor and Ost-in-Edhil and all, that there were many Noldorian Elves living and working there. Mirdania and the other smiths really portray that well. She is of course a bit star-struck by Annatar, and it is clear that he is playing her (and Celebrimbor), like a fiddle, but I like her part. I even think Amelia Kenworthy would have made a better Galadriel than Morfyyd Clark. As far as the OC Númenórean power couple goes, I'm liking Earien less and less, and I did cheer when Kevin... I mean Keman... Keren ... whateverhisnameis... the son of Pharazon, got punched in the face.

The People of Numenor ... at least the fifty or so that are always around... they are so fickle and change their minds with the tides. I guess because ... you guessed it ... 'the sea is always right'. I was hoping that wasn't going to rear its head again this season. That said, I do like Elendil and his storyline. Not book-accurate, but as accurate as Peter Jackson was to the Lord of the Rings books with his big-budget inspired fan-fiction adaptation of them. I am really hoping the writers get the Numenor dynamic right through the rest of the series. Pharazon is another character I see coming into his own as we go. With the sparing of Queen Miriel and Pharazon's glimpse of Halbarad and Sauron in the Palantir, I'm hoping these three's dynamic together comes to fruit. Pharazon marries Miriel to give his rule legitimacy, and it for a time coexistence between Elendil and Pharazon and the two factions exists for a while. Not sure what I thought of the sea monster trial. Kind of an 'elves in the Hornburg moment for me.

An observation on the beginning of the siege on Ost-in-Edhil... elves panicking and stumbling all over the place? I have a hard time picturing elves acting that way. The scene seemed a lazy tap-in to Peter Jackson's Minas Tirith siege, and I thought it was out of place for the people of Gondor then. Most certainly it is for the Noldor.

Going forward, I will continue to hope for the best and expect the worst with this series. Sadly, after a stronger start than S1, I'm finding S2 deteriorating some as it goes, especially Ep 4 & 6. Here's to hoping for a decent Ep 7 & 8.

[Aranadhel]

I gave up halfway during Episode 2 of Season 2 when I saw there were black and Asian elves... Sigh... I am done.

[Hanasian]

I gave up halfway during Episode 2 of Season 2 when I saw there were black and Asian elves... Sigh... I am done.

Thanks for letting us all know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Ercassie]

I think perhaps that after giving Season one the benefit of the doubt, the curiosity which drew many people to watch that, has evolved into a determination not to waste any more time on the show. Hence less interest here in discussing season two.

That said, certain people *pokes @Aranadhel * did bug me to take a look. And I did almost wonder/hope that perhaps reactions to the first season might have encouraged the writers to try better going forward .. right ? Personally I'm not seeing any more reason to watch, after this season, than I did after the first.

The stranger's story ... meh. I am more interested in this mysterious evil leader in Rhun than I am in Nori's non-adventures/the not a mystery at all surrounding her tallest friend's identity. And I am not interested enough in even the weird cult, to watch another season to find out whether Mr Big Bad will end up being one of the Nine or something.

Not a Bombadil fan - at all - so while I'm glad he didn't burst into song, I wasn't won over by his featuring this time around. It felt like his insertion was forced in because he's a well-known Tolkien character, rather than because there was any actual good cause to include him in the plot.

The people of the South/Pelargir were barely given any explanation or screen time compared to the first season so it feels like even the producers have lost interest in them. Maybe a lot of plans there had to be altered though, because the actress playing the healer woman (whose character I wasn't even interested enough to learn the name of) has decided not to return this season: so that 'leader' of her people was duly killed off. My biggest thought there is thank goodness we're not going to see yet another lotr inter-racial love story. Because those things were rare in the Canon but clearly far more popular in responding fanfiction for some reason. They didn't even do much with Arondir in grief of the woman though, which I did feel was a missed opportunity, even if it sounds hypocritical of me to now say so. This show leaves me very much swaying from disappointing to hmm .. okay in tiny shining places. But generally it does tend to miss chances to explore the potential it does have and focus on the other parts of it instead.

The Elves .. sigh. I actually like Gil-Galad, and Elrond also has his moments but the rest of them .. just do not feel at all like the characters who have been read as legends in the books. Celebrimbor continues to play like a confused doddering old man instead of one of the most renown smiths of all time. Celeborn has still not been recovered after his ridiculous absence from the entire show, despite Galadriel taking such centre stage. Why is she running about like a wayward teen anyway when she is supposed to already be one half of a power couple who led survivors of the first age to settle new homes ?

The Dwarves .. are at least dwarfish in as much as their interest with the mountain, and crafts and you can see the isolation and secrecy which they wield more and more against 'the outside world'. I actually thought the Disa acoustics with singing to stone was a nice element to bring some their 'magic' into the story, rather than simply using their entire people for comedic relief as PJ so often resorted to. That said, Durin and the other Durin arguing then making up then arguing etc is getting a little repetitive.

All the stuff with the ents/trees felt like they were trying to include that chapter from FOTR, also the barrow wights .... but wasn't this show meant to be focusing on the information from appendices ? Though there was a tiny glimmer of continuance where Arondir admitted in Season two to having felled a tree in Season one, which proves he's still not got over that. That was a nice little touch.

But Adar ... why why why are the orcs following this guy instead of Sauron ? It is Sauron that is meant to besiege and ruin Eregion .. not his army being led by someone else trying to take HIM down ?! I'm so confused there.

Numenor .. okay. So Pharazon is doing exactly what we want to see, and also Elendil. The rest of them are a waste of space. I don't know why we need an inserted son of pharazon/daughter of elendil doing the dirty work except for maybe trying to not have the king come over as the entire bad guy .. I wish Valandil had killed the smirking young pair already. Not to mention what is going on with Isildur and his side quest back on the mainland. Just .. what ? why ?

I will admit I was sad when Valandil then was killed in the Numenorean skirmish, although the entire episode seemed to be quite obviously designed toward that end so it was rather inevitable. The consequent trial by the Valar would have at least tied into the 'sea being right' as a reverence to Ulmo etc, they do live on an island after all. But for a king who has just ordered the devastation of a temple idolising the valar, to then allow for 'the will of the valar' to decide the fate of the man who resisted said devastation .. I dont get what Pharazon was thinking there at all. How can you hold any worth in the 'decision' of a deity you just officially outlawed ? It doesn't make his principles look very certain. If he were a younger character, i might think there was a chance that he is just coming into his own and finding his feet. But everything we've seen of him until now implies this is a man who knows his own mind. So that his decision there made no sense.

You are right @Aranadhel, that there continue to be actors of all race playing in this show but I will point out that they feature in every single kingdom, not just the elves. And while I am all for inclusion and diversity, I would far rather have seen the writers use this approach as a reason to explore the lesser known civilisations of Middle Earth who were said to be comprised of under-represented races, to show THAT side of the story and flip the narrative on its head to show WHY they came to be the opposing faction in the films we have already seen/by the time of the war of the ring, etc .. There has been so much done in developing and exploring the 'villains" in entertainment recently - considering the Musical 'Wicked', the films like 'Maleficent' etc etc, and they of course missed a huge opportunity here to give that sort of take in this show, and give us something still built from the vague foundations of appendices but exploring what we have not seen before. I would definitely have been interested to see stories based on the diverse range of peoples in Harad and the East, maybe see Sauron influencing them, the Numenoreans colonisation creating hostilities, etc. Where is their tale and representation in the show ? It would have far more interesting to explore their motives and history, beyond them simply turning up later as an unexplained enemy. But rather lazily, the show continues to randomly insert actors of colour into the already much explored civilisations of Western Middle Earth instead.

Sauron though, I will agree with @Hanasian, he is doing exactly what he was made for in this season. He has finally really started to come into his own after they dropped their 'not at all surprise' that Halbrand was actually Sauron last season. He's sneaky, smart and totally hitting all the right marks. But I'm afraid not even he shall convince me to watch another season of this show. I don't hate hate it, but it's blah to me. It doesn't draw me in enough to care strongly in any direction about most of it, so my overall opinion is that it had such a potential to do something amazing but it has proved to be simply a disappointment.

[Hanasian]

I will agree with Hanasian, he is doing exactly what he was made for in this season. He has finally really started to come into his own after they dropped their 'not at all surprise' that Halbrand was actually Sauron last season. He's sneaky, smart and totally hitting all the right marks.

He's been the best part of the series so far.

I don't hate hate it, but it's blah to me. It doesn't draw me in enough to care strongly in any direction about most of it, so my overall opinion is that it had such a potential to do something amazing but it has proved to be simply a disappointment.

Indeed. I keep seeing potential in some of the story arcs, but am almost consistently let down by their shallowness and cheap reach backs to the PJ movies and bad writing. The actors are doing well, and the whole ethnicity deal with them doesn't enter into my equation.

[Ercassie]

He's been the best part of the series so far.

And the whole ethnicity deal with them doesn't enter into my equation.

It is almost similar to Martin Freeman being the best thing in the mostly disappointing Hobbit films, although in this case Sauron is only worth watching now they have actually acknowledged he is Sauron. The first season didn't let him shine.

And I should state, for the record, that I have no problem with the more diverse ethnicity of the actors being involved. I was disappointed that that decision didn't lead to a greater exploration of civilisations in Middle which continue to be under-represented. If the Stranger/Stoors story goes on to reach that on some level in the East, that might be something ... But I have learned so far not to get my hopes up.

I shall not be bothering to even glance at any future seasons of this show unless they salvage Celeborn. And then, mostly to see how they dug themselves out of that hole.

[Boromir88]

I do find myself agreeing mostly with @Hanasian on Season 2. It's been an improvement and better flowing than Season 1 (at least the Sauron/Annatar plot, the Rings plot, seeing the seeds of the schism developing in Numenor, I still love the Dwarves). There's been fewer downsides, but the Stranger/Harfoot plot just seems to be trying to do too much this season. It's still going rather nowhere, even though the walking song as the key to "find the right path" was a nice touch. And I still don't care at all about Theo, Arondir, and Isildur, even though visually I liked the look of the Ents and Entwives better than PJ's. The lowest part of the season is Galadriel, for basically the same reasons Hanasian has mentioned. I like her character even less than Season 1, maybe her arc will come in later seasons. I hope so.

I did recently finish Episode 7, so without spoiling too much. There is a fitting and touching reunion between Galadriel and Celebrimbor which I liked. The reunion between Galadriel and Elrond though? Just no...I don't get the decision they made to go there.

Having said that Episode 7 is easily the best episode of the series, it has me actually interested and hyped for the Season conclusion next week. Annatar and Celebrimbor are easily the best part of the season (well I'll put it as reason 1B - I'll explain later). Charlie Vickers and Charles Edwards brought it in all their scenes this season, and it's the same in Episode 7, where basically everything comes to a head. I'm really going to miss their scenes together and knowing Celebrimbor's fate.

The Dwarves continue to be a positive part of the show. I liked Durin's speech as it shows the reasons that Sauron wasn't able to truly understand the dwarves heart to control them through the Rings. Despite Sauron not truly understanding Dwarves to control them, that doesn't mean the 7 Rings were completely ineffective in Sauron's schemes. You'll know Elrond's heartbreaking when you see it and I like where the show seems to be going in how the friendship starts breaking down again between the Elves and Dwarves in this Second Age. It feels inspired by Tolkien...who's at "fault?" Well, that's really hard to say.

Smaller positive tidbits in Episode 7. That troll! and High King Gil-galad!

Now as far as why I said Annatar/Celebrimbor scenes were "1B," That's because my 1A is honestly the music. Bear McCreary is an artist. I daresay, I even prefer it to Howard Shore's.

[Aranadhel]

Indeed. I keep seeing potential in some of the story arcs, but am almost consistently let down by their shallowness and cheap reach backs to the PJ movies and bad writing. The actors are doing well, and the whole ethnicity deal with them doesn't enter into my equation.[/size]

actors doing well? Whole ethnicity doesn't bother you? Seriously???

ROP desecrated Tolkien's lore regarding the Eldar! None looks and acts like how Elves are depicted in the books and PJ movies.

PS - I'm Asian and you can ask @Ercassie how I portray my Elves in here. No Asian diversity etc.

[Hanasian]

Indeed. I keep seeing potential in some of the story arcs, but am almost consistently let down by their shallowness and cheap reach backs to the PJ movies and bad writing. The actors are doing well, and the whole ethnicity deal with them doesn't enter into my equation.

(↑ Aranadhel quotes my post ↑)

actors doing well?

Yes.

Whole ethnicity doesn't bother you?

No.

Seriously???

Yes.

ROP desecrated Tolkien's lore regarding the Eldar!

...in your opinion.

None looks and acts like how Elves are depicted in the books and PJ movies.

Again in your opinion.

PS - I'm Asian

Your ethnicity doesn't matter to me either.

you can ask @Ercassie how I portray my Elves in here. No Asian diversity etc.

Portray elves however you want. That is cool. I care not though so I don't need to ask anyone. Not sure why you felt the need to bring up your ethnicity or name-drop someone else in as if it is supposed to validate your opinions to me so I accept them. I don't. They're your opinions and I disagree with them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Have a Nice Day.

[Ercassie]

@Aranadhel, I know you haven't used Asian and/or Black face claims for your elven characters on Plaza before. Others have. There was never an outcry over their choice to do that here.

As for episode seven, well I watched as far as .. the kiss. You will know which one, if you've seen it. That was enough for me. Sooo I've given my opinion of the second season, as I promised I would, old friend. I shall not stay and bash what I can very easily walk away from and leave others to enjoy if they should happen to. Each to their own.

[Aranadhel]

@Hanasian Ah so you're one of them ROP lovers.

In Appendix F of The Return of the King, he explicitly describes Elves as "fair of skin":

Elves has been used to translate both Quendi, ‘the speakers’, the High-elven name of all their kind, and Eldar, the name of the Three Kindreds that sought for the Undying Realm and came there at the beginning of Days (save the Sindar only). This old word was indeed the only one available, and was once fitted to apply to such memories of this people as Men preserved, or to the makings of Men’s minds not wholly dissimilar. But it has been diminished, and to many it may now suggest fancies either pretty or silly, as unlike to the Quendi of old as are butterflies to the swift falcon – not that any of the Quendi ever possessed wings of the body, as unnatural to them as to Men. They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars.

They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finarfin; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard. They were valiant, but the history of those that returned to Middle-earth in exile was grievous; and though it was in far-off days crossed by the fate of the Fathers, their fate is not that of Men. Their dominion passed long ago, and they dwell now beyond the circles of the world, and do not return.

[Hanasian]

@Hanasian Ah so you're one of them ROP lovers.

@Aranadhel - so you're one of them Rings of Power haters. Got it.

I just accept it as an averagely-written fan-fic like I did with Peter Jackson's crappy screenplay-written LotR fan-fic. With this site being 75% RP/Fan-Fic, you sure seem judgmental. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Aranadhel]

@Hanasian Ah so you're one of them ROP lovers.

@Aranadhel - so you're one of them Rings of Power haters. Got it.

I just accept it as an averagely-written fan-fic like I did with Peter Jackson's crappy screenplay-written LotR fan-fic. With this site being 75% RP/Fan-Fic, you sure seem judgmental. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't think anyone who was a LotR fan hoped RoP to be a failure, but that doesn't mean that being slavishly optimistic is to anyone's benefit either. LotR isn't great because it's set in Middle Earth. It's great because it's a well crafted story. RoP is just a badly crafted story, regardless of its setting. There's no reason why anyone should be rooting for something to succeed just because a gigantic corporation spent hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the rights to make a series that is constructed in the same setting, especially since the construction is so shoddy on so many different levels. I can understand the appeal of being a contrarian to a stance on a side of a perceived culture war, but you're missing the mark if you think Amazon deserves any credit or support for this project. I think misplaced optimism isn't any better than misplaced pessimism in this case.

You make the statement: "I mean we all win if something is good" but if we are to take that thesis as having merit, we also have to accept the inverse can also be the case, that 'we all lose if something is bad'. And with RoP... we all lost.

[Hanasian]

And with RoP... we all lost.

Again, in your opinion. Like it or not, Rings of Power has led a lot of people to pick up Tolkien's books, and has led to some really wonderful cosplay crafting, and like the adaptations before it (PJ, Bakshi, Rankin-Bass), Rings of Power has been (and will continue to be) a gateway that brings Middle Earth to new generations.

I know that really gets in the craw of people who hate Rings of Power, and they really can't stand any sort of discussion of the show to happen unless it's constantly dumping crap on to it. Sad.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Potentially, this is the discussion we all need to be having. My own take on RoP never got anywhere in making a discussion with anyone here, and is also entirely negative. However, it may be helpful to restate in this context.

I do not hate RoP. I am indifferent to it. I have never seen any of it, not even a trailer. I once was spell bound by Peter Jackson's LotR, but The Hobbit movies flipped me - I love The Hobbit, and the trilogy made me angry. I watched LotR again, having since first watching them read LotR many more times, and I saw that Jackson missed something, and what he missed has never been noticed let alone restored by academic critics, Tolkien fans, or new movie/series makers.

Because of The Hobbit movies, and reading Tolkien, and tbh the last straw was that Disney-style biopic, it never entered my mind to watch this Amazon series.

Hate is not required to be indifferent. Both of you actually express some indifference, but differently and about different things. For myself, I am indifferent to the entire Amazon project - except that one year ago I penned an allegory wherein a mad Hobbit cuts down the Tree on the top of Bag-end and builds a mock Elvish Tower, and the local Hobbits know it as the Great Folly on the Hill.

[Aranadhel]

And with RoP... we all lost.

Again, in your opinion. Like it or not, Rings of Power has led a lot of people to pick up Tolkien's books, and has led to some really wonderful cosplay crafting, and like the adaptations before it (PJ, Bakshi, Rankin-Bass), Rings of Power has been (and will continue to be) a gateway that brings Middle Earth to new generations.

I know that really gets in the craw of people who hate Rings of Power, and they really can't stand any sort of discussion of the show to happen unless it's constantly dumping crap on to it. Sad.

LOL! Where's your proof that people reading Tolkien's books now that ROP is out? Since you're so blinded by ROP messing up the SA's timeline with the TA's as well as effin up all the main characters as well as messing up the 19 rings abhorrent use.

Be more adult when writing please.

[Hanasian]

And with RoP... we all lost.

Again, in your opinion. Like it or not, Rings of Power has led a lot of people to pick up Tolkien's books, and has led to some really wonderful cosplay crafting, and like the adaptations before it (PJ, Bakshi, Rankin-Bass), Rings of Power has been (and will continue to be) a gateway that brings Middle Earth to new generations.

I know that really gets in the craw of people who hate Rings of Power, and they really can't stand any sort of discussion of the show to happen unless it's constantly dumping crap on to it. Sad.

LOL! Where's your proof that people reading Tolkien's books now that ROP is out? Since you're so blinded by ROP messing up the SA's timeline with the TA's as well as effin up all the main characters as well as messing up the 19 rings abhorrent use.

Be more adult when writing please.

@Aranadhel, You could be a bit more adult and be more respectful of other members of this forum. I was hoping my thread would be for discussing the content of the series episodes; not having crap constantly shoveled into it by you.

I get it. You don't like the series. There is plenty of threads here that go into detail with opinions not liking the show. You seem to personally have an issue with me, and seem to be waging some jihad against any reasonable discussion of the series here. Your every post on my thread has been pretty much a tantrum.

[Hanasian]

Potentially, this is the discussion we all need to be having. My own take on RoP never got anywhere in making a discussion with anyone here, and is also entirely negative. However, it may be helpful to restate in this context.

I do not hate RoP. I am indifferent to it. I have never seen any of it, not even a trailer. I once was spell bound by Peter Jackson's LotR, but The Hobbit movies flipped me - I love The Hobbit, and the trilogy made me angry. I watched LotR again, having since first watching them read LotR many more times, and I saw that Jackson missed something, and what he missed has never been noticed let alone restored by academic critics, Tolkien fans, or new movie/series makers.

Because of The Hobbit movies, and reading Tolkien, and tbh the last straw was that Disney-style biopic, it never entered my mind to watch this Amazon series.

Hate is not required to be indifferent. Both of you actually express some indifference, but differently and about different things. For myself, I am indifferent to the entire Amazon project - except that one year ago I penned an allegory wherein a mad Hobbit cuts down the Tree on the top of Bag-end and builds a mock Elvish Tower, and the local Hobbits know it as the Great Folly on the Hill.

I agree with you for the most part. I am indifferent to much of Rings of Power, and even have had some cringeworthy moments watching it. I was going to get into reviewing the season, but apparently the Rings of Power can't be discussed here without the usual same ol frenzied hatred toward the show being relentlessly spieled out in attempts to shut any and all discussion down. Being the show is one elaborate fanfic, I find it ironic it can't be discussed on a Middle Earth internet forum that caters to roleplaying and fan-created stories.

[Arnyn]

@Aranadhel @Hanasian @everyone

Personally I enjoy reading people's different opinions on everything LoTR-related. Most of the people still active on this site might enjoy the same.

What no one enjoys, is person A being disrespectful of person B's opinion. And let us be fair that we are talking about opinions, here. Everyone can express their own opinion without dragging someone else's opinion through the mud. This is a written medium, which means it has the advantage that you can process your gut response before posting a reply, so you can write down a mature and respectful version of it, as required by the few site rules we actually have.

Bash the series here if you like. But don't bash each other.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Thank you for that, Arnyn. But please bash the series, or even praise it - just talk about it!

That I deem these visual production sub-par does not at all mean I don't want to talk about them, even if - as in this case - it mainly means reading other people. The worse the movie productions the more it prompts us to seek harder for the literary magic that has been missed by the directors. And that can go the other way too, of course. I am sure there are elements of LotR that Peter Jackson revealed to me.

I think that in the days of the LotR movies, the great days of crowded and noisy Tolkien fandom, there was insufficient critical discussion of what movies do versus what books do. Now that we seem all agreed that the recent visual productions are bleh I'm really curious to hear people articulate why.

[Hanasian]

@Aranadhel @Hanasian @everyone

Personally I enjoy reading people's different opinions on everything LoTR-related. Most of the people still active on this site might enjoy the same.

What no one enjoys, is person A being disrespectful of person B's opinion. And let us be fair that we are talking about opinions, here. Everyone can express their own opinion without dragging someone else's opinion through the mud. This is a written medium, which means it has the advantage that you can process your gut response before posting a reply, so you can write down a mature and respectful version of it, as required by the few site rules we actually have.

Bash the series here if you like. But don't bash each other.

I agree. We are talking opinions. Express the opinion that the show sucks for all the reasons you want to list and say you aren't watching it. I believe I have been fairly respectful throughout it all all things considered. Anyway, I'll ignore em...

Thank you for that, Arnyn. But please bash the series, or even praise it - just talk about it!

That I deem these visual production sub-par does not at all mean I don't want to talk about them, even if - as in this case - it mainly means reading other people. The worse the movie productions the more it prompts us to seek harder for the literary magic that has been missed by the directors. And that can go the other way too, of course. I am sure there are elements of LotR that Peter Jackson revealed to me.

I think that in the days of the LotR movies, the great days of crowded and noisy Tolkien fandom, there was insufficient critical discussion of what movies do versus what books do. Now that we seem all agreed that the recent visual productions are bleh I'm really curious to hear people articulate why.

Yes, I very much agree. Sadly, it seems to be the goal of some to not allow discussion of the show go on without the same ol 'woke' 'Amazon budget' 'not Tolkien' etc. 'opinions' being thrown in. Nothing about the actual show. It's out, and it's 2/5ths done, and it is what it is. I'm happy to talk about it, and was hoping we had gotten to a point where it could be talked about.

____________________________________

Right. On to the last episode. Chock full of spoilers should anyone care about that... alright, where to start... a mixed bag for me, which kind of sums up my thoughts on Rings of Power in general.

• The highlight of the Season are the scenes between Charles (Celebrimbor) and Charlie (Annatar/Sauron). I had doubts about the look of Celebrimbor, but he brought his A-game to the role. In this episode we see the torment and death of Celebrimbor and I loved it. I loved how it was written. I loved how it was acted. I'm hoping it sets up the orcs taking the impaled Celebrimbor and use it as a banner when they attack the elves. Sadly, as much as I like to think of these awesome scenarios in my head, I'm sure the shallowness of the writers will gloss over it and miss the opportunity like they seem to do. Questions over the lore changes aside however, Charles and Charlie made this their own. It’s the MVP of S2, just as Elrond/Durin was MVP of S1.

• Arondir is still kicking. I hope they do more with this character in later seasons. There is so much potential with that character and actor. Sadly, the shallowness of how he seemed to miraculously recover from his beatdown in Ep 7 isn't explained. Probably the use of the rings and elven healing power ala Elrond in the PJ movies, and such off-camera, but at this point I've come to accept this is how this show rolls.

• We check in on Numenor and shire remains confusing, half sketched. They really need to flesh out what is happening in Numenor to land this entire enterprise. Again, I'm hoping they spend more of S3 on Numenor, and I am hoping that with Elendil riding away from the mob scene in Armenelos, he find's Anárion in Andunie in the west. I fully expect to be disappointed though.

• Gandalf is revealed (yawn) which to me is the worst possible outcome for the two-season investment. The writers could of had a freer slate had he been Saruman, for there has to be a lot of backstory there when he was good and had traveled east. Probably a rights thing especially with War of the Rohirrim bringing Saruman in. It is what it is. There is a weird dynamic going on with Gandalf & the (not Blue because licensing) Dark Wizard. A bit meh on it all to be honest. I really didn’t want the Stranger to be Gandalf. But he is, so meh. With the departure of Nori and the Stoors, maybe the proto-hobbits exit stage right will be the end of the whole hobbit side-plot? For some reason I doubt it.

• Adar is betrayed by his own, proving that karma is a baggins named Sauron. Again, the loyalties seemed fickle as they are in Numenor, but there was some hinting that all was not well with Adar in the minds of the Uruks

• We see Imladris before it becomes settled. The show could benefit with a little CGI to multiply the crowds some... here in Imladris, and in Numenor.

• We see Narsil in Elendil’s hands for the first time. Again, such a moment was seemingly rushed and really didn’t have the sort of impact it should have, but it was still cool.

• We see the Balrog too. Honestly, that scene between king & son, and that final shot of the king going toe to toe with the balrog in the most dwarfish way possible was pretty good. The balrog was deliberately a call back to the movies, and it works in the present -tense with the scene. Problem is I'm not sure how you put the balrog back in the bottle for the rest of the seasons though. Now that he's been disturbed, will he not go on a rampage and trash Khazad-Dum? This tweak of the lore timeline is as problematic as the rings being forged out of sequence. Also, the callbacks to the movies are generally lame and shows the shallowness of the writers. Those done in the stranger/hobbit scenes do not work. At all.

• S2 is vastly improved on S1. There’s a lot of room for further improvement, though. For instance, given the changes to the lore on Dwarf rings, how on earth are any of them distributed further?

• Will Kemen become the Mouth of Sauron? Hope so since there are so many callbacks to the PJ fanfic, a beheading would be a fitting end to the guy.

• Theo, I’m not thinking Witch-King. Given the relationship between him & Isildur, I’m thinking he might become the Lord of the Oathbreakers - those who Isildur cursed for betraying him.

I will make some hopeful predictions for S3 shortly, but I'm still stewing on them. After I re-watch S2 in binge format, I'll likely add/edit this... much of which I lifted from my wife's review elsewhere because I agreed with her assessments. I did clean up the language though.

[Rivvy Elf]

Has Celeborn appeared yet?

[Aranadhel]

Has Celeborn appeared yet?

LOL NOPE! Adar was supposed to be revealed to be Celebrimbor but Amazon as always just desecrates Tolkien's lore.

[Aranadhel]

Again, in your opinion. Like it or not, Rings of Power has led a lot of people to pick up Tolkien's books, and has led to some really wonderful cosplay crafting, and like the adaptations before it (PJ, Bakshi, Rankin-Bass), Rings of Power has been (and will continue to be) a gateway that brings Middle Earth to new generations.

I know that really gets in the craw of people who hate Rings of Power, and they really can't stand any sort of discussion of the show to happen unless it's constantly dumping crap on to it. Sad.

LOL! Where's your proof that people reading Tolkien's books now that ROP is out? Since you're so blinded by ROP messing up the SA's timeline with the TA's as well as effin up all the main characters as well as messing up the 19 rings abhorrent use.

Be more adult when writing please.

@Aranadhel, You could be a bit more adult and be more respectful of other members of this forum. I was hoping my thread would be for discussing the content of the series episodes; not having crap constantly shoveled into it by you.

I get it. You don't like the series. There is plenty of threads here that go into detail with opinions not liking the show. You seem to personally have an issue with me, and seem to be waging some jihad against any reasonable discussion of the series here. Your every post on my thread has been pretty much a tantrum.

LOL! The pot calling the kettle black... How ironic and so like Amazon. You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

Aranadhel, I am only a plaza reader and no admin. As a reader, I'm not interested in reading about the faults of another poster but I am (very) interested in Lore. We have a whole forum dedicated to Lore, sadly neglected. May I request that you spell out in a Lore post what is your understanding of Tolkien's lore? Then we would have a clearer idea of what you are saying about RoP.. Thank you!

[Chrysophylax Dives]

In this episode we see the torment and death of Celebrimbor and I loved it. I loved how it was written. I loved how it was acted. I'm hoping it sets up the orcs taking the impaled Celebrimbor and use it as a banner when they attack the elves.

@Hanasian, that very nearly gets me watching. Thinking on this in my bath (the best place for thought, other than a walk), here is a biographical reflection that may (or may not) have relevance to a series I have never seen.

Back in 1935 there were no ages of Middle-earth, just the Silmarillion stories down to the Valar crossing the Sea and defeating Morgoth. In 1936 Tolkien wrote 'The Fall of Númenor', which made a 2nd Age with the myth of the Downfall, which itself gave us Sauron as mini-Morgoth. This myth concludes with the flat world made round and Elendil who has escaped the deluge marching to Mordor with the Elf-king Gil-galad, where both fall fighting Sauron. And this Last Alliance is said to have hastened the final fading of the Elves.

That is all. For what it is worth, my conclusion from long research is that Tolkien saw this final Silmarillion tale as leaving the round historical world as it will be found in the Old English poem Beowulf, which gives us a bleak picture of a world in which the mortal heroes fight the monsters alone - gods and Elves having departed and faded. In other words, 'The Fall of Númenor' was a postscript or epilogue on the flat world stories of the Elves, pivoting us from Tolkien's invented mythology to the imagination of the ancient North in the Anglo-Saxon poem that he loved, studied, and taught.

Composition of Lord of the Rings begins at the close of 1937, and in the drafts of autumn 1938, as the Company approach Weathertop, the Strider-character (Trotter) speaks of a fortress on Weathertop built in ancient times, in the days of the Last Alliance. And then on Weathertop in the encounter with the Wringwraiths the magic ring is revealed, as it were all at once, as the One Ring.

Here in autumn 1938 appears the other side of the 2nd Age, the Rings of Power that Sauron was making when he was not on Númenor. But this is a sudden flash of insight. The 'lore' is only worked out slowly over the next decade of composition. For example, even when the narrative reaches Lothlórien Tolkien is still imagining the Rings of Power as made Fëanor in Valinor and stolen by Morgoth. Again, only as the narrative arrives at the battle of Minas Tirith and Gandalf talks of Ringwraith enemy does he name him 'Witch-king of Angmar' - and then we see evidence of Tolkien beetling around Fellowship drawing Angmar into the ancient Third Age history of the North (working up further the march to Weathertop and the significance of the blade from the Barrow given to Merry).

The 2nd Age was invented indirectly, as a by-product. The story of Númenor is really a reworking of Plato's theory of Atlantis to serve Tolkien's speculations on Beowulf, while the Rings of Power are worked out as Tolkien is in the white heat of creation of narrative that tells of the end of the 3rd Age.

Tolkien's power perhaps resides in part in his fusion of Lore and narrative, with story and lore bound up in one another. Here we have lore as by-product, and developed only with other stories in mind (Beowulf and Frodo's). An exceptional talent could for sure make a good story out of this by-product framework, but Tolkien is dead and none of his like walk our Earth today.

Just my bath thoughts...

[Hanasian]

LOL! The pot calling the kettle black... How ironic and so like Amazon. You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

Aranadhel, I am only a plaza reader and no admin. As a reader, I'm not interested in reading about the faults of another poster but I am (very) interested in Lore. We have a whole forum dedicated to Lore, sadly neglected. May I request that you spell out in a Lore post what is your understanding of Tolkien's lore? Then we would have a clearer idea of what you are saying about RoP.. Thank you!

Aranadhel seems to enjoy making personal attacks on me here for wanting to discuss the Rings of Power, and apparently that is ok with the powers that be here. It is what it is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It would be nice if they did start a thread expressing their take on the lore as they see it. It could be an interesting read.

Interesting bath thoughts Chrysophylax. Thanks for sharing. As for the end of Celebrimbor in Rings of Power, I don't think that scene alone would be worthy of having one watch the show if they aren't already an Amazon Prime subscriber where you could go and watch a part of one episode, or interested in its elaborate fan-fiction. Lore it ain't. I just thought it was done well.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

My own experience of the powers that be on the plaza is that they usually have their eye on the ball but can be devilishly slow in acting. I suppose there is a hope that people will sort it out for themselves.

This thread does compare remarkably to the Season 1 threads, which were organized and attracted a range of contributions from plaza members (though not from me). I had the sense, though, that Season 1 finished off this place in some way, at least any hope that the glory days might return.

So on the big argument going down on this thread, while I deplore the personal animus that has entered, I must say that I do perecieve Amazon as a final nail in the coffin, the sucking out of any life from Tolkien's imagination. But I reiterate that not only have I watched none of the Amazon series but also I deem this process of decay as commencing with PJ, with the seeds of decay in the first movies (and I trace that seed back to Tom Shippey's 1982 book The Road to Middle-earth).

[Boromir88]

LOL! Where's your proof that people reading Tolkien's books now that ROP is out? Since you're so blinded by ROP messing up the SA's timeline with the TA's as well as effin up all the main characters as well as messing up the 19 rings abhorrent use.

Be more adult when writing please.

Out of the 4 friends in my DnD group, 1 of the 4 (same as me) has read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings multiple times before the show (we both became interested in Tolkien because of PJ's movies). Another 2 of the 4 has become interested in Tolkien because of Rings of Power. 1 of them has decided to start with The Hobbit for the first time. I invited him to join the plaza since there was going to be a plaza reading starting in Lore. However, he's not read LOTR yet, that's next on his list.

LOL! The pot calling the kettle black... How ironic and so like Amazon. You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

I know the comment isn't directed at me, but I take quite a bit of offense at this type of gate-keeping. I understand Tolkien's lore quite well enough thank you and have recognized Amazon's showrunners have done some things well (displaying a far deeper understanding of the source material than Peter Jackson) and done other things very poorly.

Annatar's portrayal as the "Great Deceiver" in Season 2 is more accurate and far more convincing villain and source of evil than what's presented in PJ's movies. Celebrimbor's fall and prophecy to Sauron's demise is how a prophecy should be done. The Seven dwarven rings and Durin IV's speech portray what is said in the Appendices about Durin's folk being tough to tame because Sauron did not fully understand them. The rings had an effect on the dwarves (primarily the greed leading to Durin's Bane awakening), but not to the extent Sauron hoped. The showrunners have described in interviews the story of Numenor is one about one faction wanting to remain faithful and friends with the Eldar, and the King's Men being jealous of the Elves immortality and their desire for "deathlessness." The orc war camp in Season 1 and trenches was a haunting depiction of the horrors of WW1's trench warfare. And the depiction of orcs aversion to sunlight, but being real threats to all the heroes and free peoples (not just cannon fodder for the heroes to mindlessly cut through with ease).

The show is far from perfect, I don't find it as entertaining as PJ's Lord of the Rings trilogy (I compared Season 1 to The Hobbit trilogy, and I would say Season 2 is a noticeable improvement over The Hobbit trilogy). And when watching I've had to separate my love and passion as a Tolkien reader from being a fan who watches a lot of movies and TV shows (in many different genres). But you are wrong to say people who welcome and enjoy Amazon's ROP don't understand Tolkien's lore.

[Arnyn]

@Aranadhel

We have made it perfectly clear not to bash others.

Stop.

This is your first official warning.

[Arnyn]

@Hanasian No, not okay with it. We (admins) were just hoping things would cool down after the friendly reminder yesterday.

[Aranadhel]

@Boromir88 The show is complete garbage. Waited my whole life to see the 2nd age on film and they don't follow the lore at all and basically destroy Tolkien's vision. This isn't Tolkien, it's modern agenda BS.

It's just bad on all levels, acting, writing, everything about it. Every character including Sauron make the dumbest decisions one after another. Nothing ever happens. 90 percent of the show is characters standing around arguing about things and not ever doing anything about it. Or the things they actually do are off screen. No sense of time. Can't tell it takes weeks for something to happen. It's like it's just a day when it actually took months. Or the opposite. What takes a day seems like a week. Elrond getting back to Lindon before the orc army getting to eregion is ridiculous. Durin goes back and forth from khazad dum to eregion multiple times but it seems like he's doing it so fast he's teleworking. Just horrible time management. Talking and talking and talking. It's so boring and again... it's a complete blasphemy of Tolkien's writing and lore. It deserves to be canceled. Period. Horrible show in every way. Even the sets are small and unimpressive looking. Costumes look literally like cosplay. Every single thing is awful. I'm glad it's failing. Hopefully Amazon sells the rights to a platform that'll do it properly.

[Arnyn]

@Aranadhel Delete one sentence from that last post. You should know which one.

7/10 update: edited it out myself

[Boromir88]

@Aranadhel, I gave 5 examples of the series portraying Tolkien's lore accurately and having a better understanding of the source material than Peter Jackson's films, to support my opinion. And as a bonus, the music is phenomenal. Bear McCreary is an artist and a great addition to the series (I prefer him to Howard Shore, to be completely honest). Despite the voices of opinions similar to yours, I doubt the series will be canceled. So, it seems any further discussion on this topic with you will be fruitless. We'll have to leave it at that.

[Hanasian]

... on the big argument going down on this thread...

I fail to see an 'argument' at all. I do see one person in particular ranting and raving about Rings of Power even existing, and bashing anyone who cares to want to actually talk about its content.

LOL! Where's your proof that people reading Tolkien's books now that ROP is out? Since you're so blinded by ROP messing up the SA's timeline with the TA's as well as effin up all the main characters as well as messing up the 19 rings abhorrent use.

Be more adult when writing please.

Out of the 4 friends in my DnD group, 1 of the 4 (same as me) has read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings multiple times before the show (we both became interested in Tolkien because of PJ's movies). Another 2 of the 4 has become interested in Tolkien because of Rings of Power. 1 of them has decided to start with The Hobbit for the first time. I invited him to join the plaza since there was going to be a plaza reading starting in Lore. However, he's not read LOTR yet, that's next on his list.

LOL! The pot calling the kettle black... How ironic and so like Amazon. You're just not able to understand Tolkien's lore if you welcome what Amazon has done with ROP.

I know the comment isn't directed at me, but I take quite a bit of offense at this type of gate-keeping. I understand Tolkien's lore quite well enough thank you and have recognized Amazon's showrunners have done some things well (displaying a far deeper understanding of the source material than Peter Jackson) and done other things very poorly.

Annatar's portrayal as the "Great Deceiver" in Season 2 is more accurate and far more convincing villain and source of evil than what's presented in PJ's movies. Celebrimbor's fall and prophecy to Sauron's demise is how a prophecy should be done. The Seven dwarven rings and Durin IV's speech portray what is said in the Appendices about Durin's folk being tough to tame because Sauron did not fully understand them. The rings had an effect on the dwarves (primarily the greed leading to Durin's Bane awakening), but not to the extent Sauron hoped. The showrunners have described in interviews the story of Numenor is one about one faction wanting to remain faithful and friends with the Eldar, and the King's Men being jealous of the Elves immortality and their desire for "deathlessness." The orc war camp in Season 1 and trenches was a haunting depiction of the horrors of WW1's trench warfare. And the depiction of orcs aversion to sunlight, but being real threats to all the heroes and free peoples (not just cannon fodder for the heroes to mindlessly cut through with ease).

The show is far from perfect, I don't find it as entertaining as PJ's Lord of the Rings trilogy (I compared Season 1 to The Hobbit trilogy, and I would say Season 2 is a noticeable improvement over The Hobbit trilogy). And when watching I've had to separate my love and passion as a Tolkien reader from being a fan who watches a lot of movies and TV shows (in many different genres). But you are wrong to say people who welcome and enjoy Amazon's ROP don't understand Tolkien's lore.

Their repeated posts are directed at me, and they are here for all to see in all their glory. Again

I wholeheartedly agree with your insights here Boromir. Being a Tolkien reader and knowing the lore, and watching Rings of Power and liking parts of the show are not mutually exclusive. It's sad to see people who claim to be Tolkien fans act in such a way.

As far as the show being cancelled, I doubt it will be considering the investment already put into it. With a platform like Amazon Prime subscriptions paid by people who are interested in free shipping, or any content on Prime TV, not just Rings of Power, they aren't really out much by continuing it since they have 24 more episodes to go. If Amazon was smart, they would green-light production of the rest of the series and get it done. It would probably cost Bezos a half of a rocket launch.

@Hanasian No, not okay with it. We (admins) were just hoping things would cool down after the friendly reminder yesterday.

I would hope not. I guess I'll see, yeah?

@Aranadhel, I gave 5 examples of the series portraying Tolkien's lore accurately and having a better understanding of the source material than Peter Jackson's films, to support my opinion. And as a bonus, the music is phenomenal. Bear McCreary is an artist and a great addition to the series (I prefer him to Howard Shore, to be completely honest). Despite the voices of opinions similar to yours, I doubt the series will be canceled. So, it seems any further discussion on this topic with you will be fruitless. We'll have to leave it at that.

Yes, Bear McCeary's score is really awesome for the most part. And as for PJ's projects, he pretty much kicked open the door on making changes to Tolkien's writing when adapting them to visual media.

Going back to people becoming interested in Tolkien because they have seen Rings of Power, that is cool your friends are! I'm on a few other Tolkien Middle Earth sites, and there have been a few new members mentioning they started reading Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion after becoming interested in the source material that led to Rings of Power. Also, I'm on a facebook group called Lord of the Rings Costuming where several people have made some incredible outfits based on Rings of Power.

I am in the process of binging through the season 2 episodes and am making notes, and will likely post an overall review when I'm done.

[Aranadhel]

@Aranadhel, I gave 5 examples of the series portraying Tolkien's lore accurately and having a better understanding of the source material than Peter Jackson's films, to support my opinion. And as a bonus, the music is phenomenal. Bear McCreary is an artist and a great addition to the series (I prefer him to Howard Shore, to be completely honest). Despite the voices of opinions similar to yours, I doubt the series will be canceled. So, it seems any further discussion on this topic with you will be fruitless. We'll have to leave it at that.

Beg to disagree. Watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEKBuZ8neCk She encapsulates what a number of Tolkien fans think of this series.

Eowyn admin: edited

[Arnyn]

Correction: What a number of Tolkien fans think of the series. Not Tolkien fans in general.

Which also happens to be the part that makes look like an attack, Aranadhel. The generalization that all Tolkien fans hate it. Or should hate it, if they want to be a proper Tolkien fan. If you tell a Tolkien fan who doesn't hate the show that true Tolkien fans hate/should hate the show, that can feel like an attack. Clearly there are fans who don't absolutely hate it.

So I edited your last post in a way that shows how it would no longer feel like an attack.

Thanks.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Any chance of reading your views on Season 2, @Arnyn?

[Boromir88]

In regards to Rings of Power increasing and drawing more interest in people reading Tolkien. The Silmarillion became a Top 20 seller (#12) on Amazon for the first time:

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/0 ... e%20myths.

[Maeglin]

I've just finished watching Season 1 and 2 of Rings of Power, and overall I liked it a lot. Season 1 was slow, but so was Fellowship of the Ring when things were just beginning, charecters were being introduced, and things like that. Season 2 here had a lot of action. Just two things I noted here.

1. The introduction of African-American and American-Chinese/Japanese/Korean actors. The way I see it, this fictional universe is like the times of King Aurthur, like the Germanic and Scandinavian legends. The charecters were all supposed to be European. At times this difference was huge in my opinion, and it was startling to see. I'm not a racist and this ain't no racist rant, but there are things not written in the book. Like elves are said to be have long, flowing hair, but here in their effort to be politically correct, they didn't even give wigs of long, flowing hair to the Afro-American elves on the set. But once you get over the selection of the cast, every actor did a great job. The acting was great, maybe even better than Season 1!

2. Galadriel is back being her secretive, manipulative self. She knows Halbrand is Sauron himself, but gives a cryptic messege to Celebrimbor to not let Halbrand inside Eregion. Like if the fate of Middle-Earth depends on keeping Sauron away from any source of power, why keep this important information from everyone! I'd say Galadrial is as much respoinsible for Eregion's fall as is Sauron.

3. There's some childish misunderstanding and power struggle between Galadriel and Elrond. Elrond runs off with the three elven rings, and tries to use Cirdan's help to drown the rings forever. Ok...but first maybe discuss things with your High King, get them tested, without jumping off waterfalls from your paranoia, Elrond? I thought Elves in LOTR were wise, even if they had their share of mistakes.

Other than these, it was perfect. The battle scene was my favorite, it reminded me of the seige of Minas Tirith in RoTK.

[Arnyn]

@Chrysophylax Dives Well I haven't gotten around to completely wtaching the second season yet. I've been watching with my husband and he fell asleep for part of the last episode we watched, so now I'm 'stuck' until he catches up. ;) And RoP isn't so well or excitingly written that I 'cannot stand' to wait.

The above should at least tell you one thing: the series doesn't pull me in. It doesn't have the same magic for me that PJ's movies had (mostly).

That being said, I appreciate the visuals (except for the armour), the music, and the casting. It took me a bit to get used to some people (like Elrond) but I did end up appreciating the actors overall. It's mostly the writing (and probably directing) that has disappointed me - in many ways. The dialogue, the plot, the character arcs. It's... 'okay'. For me it's an 'okay' series to watch when I'm looking for something.

I had no trouble accepting beforehand that it is inspired by parts of Tolkien's literature. If I hadn't been able to let go of the source material, I'd probably be wrecking glass bottles in a rage room over it somewhere. But I can let go and just look at it separately, and appreciate what it is bringing me. The look it offers at Numenor is nice. Since I'm a Gondor fan. Even though they could have done a much better job - and again I haven't finished season 2, it's 'something' and I don't absolutely hate it.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Thanks @Arnyn!
I am almost tempted to watch. I am really curious about Celebrimbor. I always thought his 'riddle' on the western door of Moria pointed to the treachery of Sauron, and want to see if they made anything of this. To be honest, by now I'm also curious on the whole race thing - my bet: a handful of non-white actors playing Elves and Men and Dwarves, but none in any of the lead roles. (Pure guess.)
But... Númenor is at the heart of my Tolkien research. For years now I have been slowly developing the thesis that the very idea of Númenor's fall is bound up in Tolkien's study of Beowulf. And so I'm going to find it even harder to take when I see the ways they have (I presume) messed up the Númenor story. I have enough things on my plate that bother and bug me atm, and this would not be a peripheral, marginal bug but a poke right in the eye, then a kick in the stomach, and then some more.

[Hanasian]

In regards to Rings of Power increasing and drawing more interest in people reading Tolkien. The Silmarillion became a Top 20 seller (#12) on Amazon for the first time:

↑ This right here ↑

I also get where you are coming from Arnyn. I went into Rings of Power hoping for the best and expecting the worst. It has pretty much landed in the middle with me, much like PJ's Lord of the Rings. Despite its faults like the jumbled timeline, some shallow writing, editing, some character development and questionable character actions, Rings of Power is doing a decent job of including proper lore into it from the bits and pieces of legendarium they are allowed to use. I wish they would go easier on the hat-tips to Peter Jackson's movies though.

Adar is one, and the five seconds of the orc (I mean Uruk) Glug and his wife and family that was shown.
The producers of Rings of Power got the lore closer to right than PJ did for sure.

From the Silmarillion (This covers the lore behind Adar as well)
From PJ's Lord of the Rings
From Rings of Power

My binge of season 2 has been put on hold due to other shows we're watching, but it is happening shortly. :)

[Lail]

I finally gave s2 a go as it was on free TV/streaming but ultimately, I found myself forcing myself to sit down and watch it just to get it done, not really that eager to engage. s1 was fine, but not amazing for me. I walked away quite liking Elrond (ok except the whole mithril thing ) and the hobbits and seeing Numenor on screen.

The first thing I noticed in s2 was a drop in quality of sets and costumes. Sets felt way more CGI'ed and fake. I know this is super nitpicky, but the costumes were just...too vibrant in color. Why was literally everyone wearing teal? Something about the costumes felt very off and it was distracting to me.

Moving on... my next complaint. They seemed to get super excited about things like watchers-in-the-water and Ents and Tom Bombadil and a balrog and all these very cool and very unique entities in ME and sort of just vomited them all on screen for the sake of adding a cool thing instead of really giving it any thought. It was jarring how fast they were tossed in and then disappeared just as quickly. I just wasn't into this rapid fire inserting interesting-ME-beings. It was too much.

I didn't love Galadriel in s1 and she annoyed and frustrated me even more this time around.

Pluses for me were:
- Celembrimbor's fall. I felt this was quite well done
- Elrond going off to start settling Imladris was quite neat
- hobbits - I mean I always love them and their story is meandering and random but I don't care, they are delightful
- I didn't really get into Arondir's story in s1 but somehow this season he caught my attention more and I'd totally root for him
- The dwarf singing magic was one of the coolest things.

I feel like there is little depth to the story. Environmental and pacifist tones I feel are present in Tolkien's work are just totally absent. Everything feels very surface level and basic and like a whole lot of recycled plot and I'm just tired of rehashing the same stuff. I want to see something original and fresh with real heart and imagination and this just ain't it. I've read heaps of fanfiction (on this site) that is 1000x better than this show and I more than likely won't be watching s3.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Lailyn: I never bothered to give these series any attention for all reasons named above. We have many very accompliced writers on the forum left, to gives us real, interactive joy that no show can replace. That is what I love being around here, even by the few small interactive RP's I have myself. I never liked really to sit down and consume a TV show or series. These days, on my own, I always do something next of it. Such as a good embroidery or do meal preparations.