Bilbo: The Origin of the Name

Discussions in Middle-earth lore, language and books.
New Soul
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Some Plaza readers who have been following my posts in other threads over the past year, and agreed with the contents, might have come to the realization that an awful lot of links to the English Renaissance era have been revealed.

Some of the more knowledgeable, particularly of a scholarly disposition, might also understand that very little has been published exploring Tolkien’s works in relation to this particular arena of English history. I think it’s high time more is exposed. What I hope to convey, with evidence, is my belief that pivotal inventions in his early writings were greatly influenced by the dramatic plays from England’s ‘Golden Age’.



Match me a Bilbo in London



‘Bilbo’ – A Tricksy Choice for a Name

Much beloved, and for many their all-time favorite character, is the remarkable Bilbo Baggins. In speech, personality and mannerisms, Tolkien’s endearing invention initially comes across as the quintessential polite, mind your own business, English gentleman – not quite aristocratic, but certainly prosperous and respectable. Yet there is one obvious part to his composition that is very un-English. And that, of course, is his first name. Where in the world did Tolkien come up with ‘Bilbo’? Exactly what or who was the source of his inspiration?

Though scholars have proposed a variety of possibilities, none are entirely convincing. Not enough to say ‘case closed’. And who knows perhaps the Professor intentionally made it difficult for us? Or perhaps the source was highly obscure making a connection practically impossible? Either which way, badly needed is a fresh injection of ideas. Likely overdue is a paradigm shift because there’s a very good chance the searches to date have all been executed in the wrong place.

Before we get too deep into our pursuit, we must first take a long hard look at what Tolkien himself said about naming. In The Peoples of Middle-earth he commented that ‘Bilbo’ was in a grouping of several other hobbit names which:

“… had no ‘meaning’ or derivation or connexion with books or legends: …”.

– The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix on Languages – pg. 46   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

However, a caveat was imposed. He conveyed the limitation applied only to names Hobbits gave each other. In other words these were matters ‘internal’ to the tale. What I am most interested in is the inspirational trigger ‘external’ to the tale. Despite the statement below being directed at The Lord of the Rings, there is every reason to believe an external based naming process (Item (2) below) was practiced – even in the days of writing The Hobbit:

“The etymology of words and names in my story has two sides: (1) their etymology within the story; and (2) the sources from which I, as an author, derive them.”

– Letter to Gene Wolfe from Tolkien, November 1966

What else did Tolkien have to say about Mr. Baggins that is relevant to discovering a credible source? Perhaps most disconcerting is the very official reply* given to the editor of The Observer newspaper. When questioned on the ‘invented’ name for the furry-footed creatures he’d called ‘Hobbits’, and when asked to disclose more about Bilbo Baggins, he offered up something quite surprising:

“… I do not remember anything about the name and inception of the hero.”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #25 – printed in The Observer 20 February 1938, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

In taking this at face value, many scholars have simply opted to give up. Tolkien’s statement is very factual. He advised us not to bother and look:

“I could guess, of course, but the guesses would have no more authority than those of future researchers, and I leave the game to them.”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #25 – printed in The Observer 20 February 1938, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

According to his declaration – there is no answer; readers’ postulations might be as good as his. So in other words with ‘Bilbo’ and ‘Baggins’ – further investigation is pointless. Then we should ask – why should it be a “game”?



Image

Illustration by J.R.R. Tolkien depicting Bilbo



… to be continued




* Tolkien sent two replies to The Observer. Although he said the published one was made in jest, there is nothing to suggest anything written was untruthful.
Last edited by Priya on Sat Jul 20, 2024 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bard of Imladris
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It reminds me of Bjälbo, a ruling house I first learned about in Crusader Kings 2.

New Soul
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Priya: I have no idea about any game? I never asked where Bilbo's name came from, only that I never really liked it and changed it often into Blibo or another variant of it. I find the other names such a Peregrin and Meriadoc and Samwise far more original and much better. Besides the first part of his name bil-bo is the behind (you sit upon) of a person in Dutch. So yes, I don't find it inspiring. :headshake:
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New Soul
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Hello Rivvy Elf

Indeed, there is a resemblance !!

Hello Aiks

That’s too funny. :rofl:




… continued from my previous post


So if we are to believe Tolkien, we are faced with the prospect of ‘Bilbo’ possessing no etymological origin. At least not one known to Tolkien or thoughtfully constructed by him. This would then be a case unlike ‘Smaug’ whom the Professor derived from:

“… the past tense of the primitive Germanic verb Smugan, to squeeze through a hole: – a low philological jest.”

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #25 – printed in The Observer 20 February 1938, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (italicized emphasis on Smugan)

Hmm … this is kind of odd – ‘Smaug’ had an external source but not ‘Bilbo’? Upon further pondering and critical examination we have to take a deep breath and shake our heads. From all we know about Tolkien, would he have really just come up with ‘Bilbo Baggins’ without considerable thought. Are we truly expected to believe the very hero of our tale had his names picked randomly? Could this really just be a case of the Professor phonetically liking the combination of two funny sounding words?

The scholar John Rateliff has suggested:

“ ‘Bilbo’ is both a short, simple made-up name appropriate for the hero of a children’s book … Bilbo is almost certainly Tolkien’s own coinage.”

The History of The Hobbit, The Name ‘Bilbo’, John Rateliff, 2007

However, though this sounds plausible Tolkien’s explicit newspaper denial is one rare occasion where we must question his veracity and re-examine the issue. Because we know in directly contradicting The Observer assertion, he much later provided an ‘external’ origination. Part of ‘Baggins’ was:

“Intended to recall ‘bag’ … and meant to be associated (by hobbits) with Bag End … (It was the local name for my aunt’s farm in Worcestershire, which was at the end of a lane leading to it and no further).”

– Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings, Names of Persons and Peoples, J.R.R. Tolkien   (Tolkien’s emphasis in quotes, my underlined emphasis)



Image

Jane Neave’s Farmhouse, ‘Bag End’, Dormston, Worcestershire


The Professor can’t have it both ways. And it is highly doubtful that a temporary lapse of memory occurred while writing his ‘no knowledge’ Observer disclaimer. Which is why one can rightfully dig deeper. And so upon further reflection left open is the possibility of ‘Bilbo’ still having a structured basis rooted in a philological sense to England. Equally – Tolkien might have plucked the name from elsewhere!


… to be continued

New Soul
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…. continued from my previous post



In stepping back and looking at the big picture, there is no doubt that the 1937 release of his new fairy tale to the public at large put Tolkien under considerable pressure. Greatly desired was the book to be a hit. Thus an unexpected attack questioning the originality of his core ‘Hobbit’ invention must have been hugely disappointing. He might have been flustered to the point of volunteering material which was not quite truthful. But only I suspect to quash any further inquiries – especially by academics. In my view this is quite understandable. After all, his professional reputation could have been tarnished – and as you will see, present were problematic things he’d rather not disclose.

Now the forename ‘Bilbo’ is an extremely rare one as far as its appearance in the English-speaking world. Tom Shippey has discovered a hill* in Herefordshire called ‘Great Bilbo’ – though its naming origin remains a mystery. Mark Hooker in The Hobbitonian Anthology has investigated, what I deem as unlikely, links to the French Monsieur Bilboquet. More convincing is a connection to the cup and ball game known as bilbo-catch which historically may have had its origin in a ‘ring’ and ‘finger’ toy – which again has a French connection. The trouble with all of this is that Tolkien appears not to have been overly fond of his Gallic neighbors, and Bilbo’s relations (with their frenchified double-barreled surnames) were not exactly portrayed as a pleasant lot. Nevertheless, the theory has considerable merit. Certainly it is one of the two best explanations currently out there. The other being that ‘Bilbo’ was derived from the Spanish sword known as a ‘bilboe’ – thus aptly tying the hero to Sting acquired from the trolls’ lair.

In my view, both proposals have a fundamental flaw for the reason the hero’s naming would then result from an ill-fitting chronological sequence. Per the tale the name ‘Bilbo’ came before the incidents of acquiring the sword or the ring slipping on finger event, not after the fact. A point that Tolkien would have been aware of and thus, I feel, he would have dismissed such propositions.

No – in my opinion the name ‘Bilbo’ must have been originally sourced ‘external’ to The Hobbit and not be related to events or items within the tale itself. Something in our real world must have triggered ‘Bilbo’ – a bit like the ‘Bag’ of Baggins, and likewise ‘Sackville’:

“Sackville is an English name (of more aristocratic** association than Baggins).”

Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings, Names of Persons and Peoples, J.R.R. Tolkien

Whether the name stemmed from a submerged:

“… ‘leaf-mould’ of memories …”,

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #324 – 4-5 June 1971, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

or whether there was another factor – I will leave it to the reader to judge. But if we could come up with a reasonably solid idea and the actual name of a character called ‘Bilbo’ elsewhere in the English-speaking world, and if simultaneously we deduce some decent connectivity to parts of The Hobbit – then surely it would leapfrog preexisting theories and jump to the front of the queue. Because we know that Tolkien had indeed set a precedent. By plucking the names of the dwarves (and starring wizard) out of ancient Norse texts – the Professor has used external sources from our real world:

“… the names of the Dwarves in The Hobbit (and additions in the L.R.) are derived from the lists in Völuspá of the names of dvergar; …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #297 – August 1967, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981



Image


Dwarf List: ‘Völuspá’ (not all versions have the same spelling)




There is then no real reason why we should discount a similar process of ‘plucking’ being used as the basis to arrive at ‘Bilbo’. But from where? If not from books – then maybe from something closely related?


… to be continued




* See The Road to Middle-earth, The Bourgeois Burglar, T.A. Shippey, 2003.

** One might reasonably presume that Tolkien was aware of at least one (and probably more) of the aristocrats in England who had historically possessed ‘Sackville’ as a surname.

New Soul
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…. continued from my previous post



Perhaps the faintest of clues exist in the oft-told story of how one day while marking School Certificate examination papers Tolkien came up with the introductory sentence:

“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit.”

– The Hobbit, An Unexpected Party

Sure, all the attention has been focused on the momentous occasion of creating the word ‘hobbit’, but nevertheless since ‘Bilbo’ follows not long afterwards – maybe the tale was beginning to brew in Tolkien’s head. Even though he freely admitted that after writing the first line:

“I did nothing about it, for a long time, …”,

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #163 – 7 June 1955, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

that’s not sufficient to discount other strands to the initial storyline having formed very early on.

It is at this point we need to employ some conjecture. It might seem a stretch for some – but at least there is some logic involved. One might ask oneself – what examination papers were they? Could they have affected Tolkien’s thoughts as his bored mind wandered? Did the idea behind the first line extend well beyond it, and did the examination papers influence that?

It is recorded since his days at the University of Leeds that the marking of school papers became:

“… an annual chore which he will undertake for many years …”.

The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology – Summer 1922, C. Scull & W. Hammond

Details of what he actually marked are scant. There is a good possibility that the test paper at the moment of inspiration was of English Literature – and the subject was Shakespearian in nature (or writings of that era). One rare recording tells us he:

“… read two hundred answers on ‘Caesar’s ghost’, …”.

The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology – 22 July 1925, C. Scull & W. Hammond

No wonder his mind was apt to wander!



… to be continued
Last edited by Priya on Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

New Soul
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Hi Priya, I had an idea you found it funny. :lol: Yeah I know the all Dwarf names come from the Scandinavian sagas. I read your other three entries. Who knew how Tolkien's mind really was wired, besides his wife and kids? Anyhow I'll on the look for a new segment.
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New Soul
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Hello Aiks

Glad to have you following this new thread. After this post - I will reveal where I think Tolkien grabbed the name ‘Bilbo’. And I will also try and explain why.



…. continued from my previous post


The English Renaissance Era – Unexplored Possibilities

Now Tolkien’s accumulated knowledge of English history is known to have been very much centered on a period prior to the 1400’s. From the Anglo-Saxons to Middle-english and the age of Chaucer, the Professor’s expert acquaintance is undeniable. Yet less well-known is the likelihood of a vast array of stored information concerning the late Elizabethan and Jacobean eras: the so-called ‘Golden Age’. Oh most certainly Tolkien knew his Shakespeare:

“I went to King Edward’s School and spent most of my time learning Latin and Greek; but I also learned English. Not English Literature! Except Shakespeare …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #163 – 7 June 1955, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981



Image

King Edward’s School, Birmingham – Probably pre-1930




Yet we also know that he graduated in 1915 from Exeter College at the University of Oxford with a First-class honours degree in English Language and Literature. Rateliff is probably correct in remarking Tolkien:

“… was of course familiar with the full range of English literature up to about 1830 …”.

The History of The Hobbit, Addendum: The Seventh Phase, J. Rateliff, 2007

And that gels. Because I would argue that one is not appointed to the post of Professor of English Language and Literature at Merton without a broader base of familiarity and understanding. For when it comes to literature there was far more to the English Renaissance era than works produced by the Bard of Avon. So just maybe in this particular corner of Tolkien’s reading arena, something triggered an intriguing naming. Perhaps something has been missed by all scholars to date? And the reason why this particular period is so worth investigating, is the inclusion of indisputable Elizabethan/Jacobean vocabulary in Songs for the Philologists (see thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really’, post of 18 June 2024) a time period of creativity not that far removed from writing that first famous opening sentence of The Hobbit. Adding to this is my contention that the three trolls of The Hobbit were sourced from the same historical era (see see thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really’). Thus, we have a legitimate line of inquiry. One that we cannot easily discard or tar as absurd.

So we are finally approaching the revelation I’ve been trying to get to all along. That paradigm shift I spoke about earlier now needs to be played out. Needed to be investigated is what some may deem unlikely – a potential adoption of ‘Bilbo’ that has something to do with Elizabethan and Jacobean England. With that thought I must harp back to Shakespeare and his plays.

Foregoing discussion on Tolkien’s recorded dislike of the Bard, I much prefer to balance that out by focusing on the philological side of the equation. Having worked for the forerunner of the Oxford English Dictionary, I’m certain Tolkien would have known that Shakespeare was the inventor (or most likely the first documented user) of more ‘new’ words than any other historical figure as well as its single most quoted person:

“The works of Shakespeare (1564–1616) are more widely quoted in OED than those of any other author …”.

– OED website, Shakespeare in the OED

And the source of these ‘new’ words were, of course, a set of voluminous plays. Indeed, on that basis the Elizabethan/Jacobean time periods were equally rich with dramas from other famed playwrights – where once again many ‘new’ words arose to find their way into our lexicon. These matters should have been dominant in Tolkien’s thoughts. Especially as the Professor said:

“I like history, and am moved by it, but its finest moments for me are those in which it throws light on words and names!”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #205 – 21 February 1958, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (my underlined emphasis)

One can only conclude that as a professional philologist Tolkien had no choice but to actively engage in specialist study. Fortunately both the University of Leeds* and the Bodleian** at Oxford housed acclaimed collections of many of the earliest surviving works from these eras. Wouldn’t you have thought there’s a good chance the Professor took advantage of the facilities?



Image


William Shakespeare’s First Folio, Bodleian Library, Oxford




Unfortunately the written evidence of Tolkien studying playwrights other than Shakespeare is rather sparse. The most obvious allusion is to Thomas Nashe (per Have with You to Saffron-Walden) in his English and Welsh essay where mentioned is a variant of the more modernistic giant refrain: ‘fe-fi-fo-fum’. That classic English fairy tale phrase doesn’t crop up in his On Fairy-stories lecture/paper – but something in the drafts, which is even more intriguing, does. Yes, on one occasion*** – a remarkably illuminating statement was made:

“Adults are allowed to study anything: even old theatre-programmes, …”.

– Tolkien On Fairy-stories, Manuscript B MS. 14 F 32-34 – pg. 284, V. Flieger and D. Anderson, 2014

Hmm … ‘theatre-programmes’. Not quite ‘books’!

From this ever so revealing sentence, the implication is that Tolkien indeed took some time out to pursue such an interest. Otherwise, why mention a relatively obscure branch of literature? Don’t you get the feeling that Tolkien the philologist, who was always interested in ‘roots’, might well have looked at some of the earliest English examples?




… to be continued



* Housed today in ‘Special Collections’ and the Brotherton Gallery.

** Many housed today in the Weston Library. Tolkien must have become reasonably familiar with their existence and must have had access to Bodleian documents for research purposes during his stint at The New English Dictionary.

*** The statement actually made it to the published paper more or less unchanged:

“Adults are allowed to collect and study anything, even old theatre-programmes or paper bags.”

The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 130, HarperCollins, 1983

Given this investigation of ‘Bilbo’, one may wonder whether the mention of ‘bags’ was an allusive referral of an etymological study conducted for ‘Baggins’!

New Soul
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Hi Priya: Surely! :nod: Oh you think that B's name is connected to Shakespeare? It could be, off course. Well a root digger goes at great lengths to understand something, and the era in question likely matters not much. Or the hate of it must be so great and overwhelming? :confused: Curious line of thought you are entering on. Shapespeare's plays were a great fun and delight for the people in the sixteenth century and pretty popular. For the literate people programs were great information sheets. Books were expensive in those times. And even the illiterate people enjoyed those plays. The tales are told on stage. I think Shakespeare was an invaluable commodity in times where not all people could read and write.
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New Soul
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Hello Aiks

The connection I’m proposing isn’t William Shakespeare but a compatriot: Thomas Dekker. Still - I agree with everything you said about Shakespeare and people of those times. :nod:



… continued from my previous post



Thomas Dekker’s Bilbo, Dragon & Quest

As I have already discussed in my thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really!’, I believe Tolkien was well-aware of the famous Cony-catching pamphlets printed for Robert Greene’s plays. While perusing such material, I suspect that there was another which attracted his attention. A theatre-programme that caught his eye because of a dragon-like* frontispiece to the quarto:

“I find ‘dragons’ a fascinating product of imagination.”

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #122 – 18 December 1949, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

“I desired dragons with a profound desire.”

The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 135, HarperCollins, 1983

And that drawing was for a Jacobean play written by Thomas Dekker** titled: Match me in London***!



Image

Quarto of Dekker’s ‘Match me in London’, 1631




Dragon pictures are a rarity among the relatively few play pamphlets that have survived from the English Renaissance era. Indeed, I can find only one other****. But it is not just the ‘fire-drake’ mentioned in the play who draws interest, it is the character called ‘Bilbo’ who speaks of it:

“BILBO: Another fire-drake*****!”

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

How intriguing! What an incredible connection!



… to be continued






* The depicted creature is possibly a gryphon – but it is certainly dragonesque enough to arouse curiosity.

** Extract from The British Library Web-site: The Bellman of London, 1608

“Thomas Dekker (c. 1572–1632) was an English dramatist and pamphleteer. In 1608 he published his most popular tract, The Belman of London, one of a series of ‘cony-catching’ pamphlets that Dekker wrote to expose the various scams and deceptions of contemporary criminals and confidence tricksters.”

Note the commonality of Dekker’s ‘cony-catching’ pamphlets with those of Robert Greene (see thread: ‘Bill, Bert & Tom - Yeah Really’).

*** All quotes are translated from Elizabethan English to a more modern form of English for ease of understanding.

The quote and print source used in this analysis is per the University of Michigan Library (quod.lib.umich.edu):

“A tragi-comedy: called, Match mee in London As it hath beene often presented; first, at the Bull in St. Iohns-street; and lately, at the Priuate-House in Drury-Lane, called the Phœnix Written by Tho: Dekker.
Dekker, Thomas, ca. 1572-1632.”

London: Printed by B. Alsop and T. Favvcet, for H. Seile, at the Tygers-head in St. Pauls Church-yard, 1631.

**** A quarto for Shakespeare’s: The Tragic History of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, dated 1605 and printed by I.R. for N.L.

***** According to Hoy and Bowers:

“Fire-drake, used quibblingly of the approaching torch and a man with a fiery nose.”

Introductions, Notes and Commentaries to Texts in the ‘Dramatic Works of Thomas Dekker’, C. Hoy edited by F. Bowers, Volume III – pg. 153, 1980
Last edited by Priya on Wed Sep 25, 2024 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

New Soul
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Hi Priya: Thomas Dekker. Sounds Dutch. Hmm. I don't know if I have heard of him, possibly? Google coughs up as Dutch prof cyclist, but that is not the one I am sure. I found an Elisabethan guy. I think that's him. Hmm yes. His play I have never heard off, so I guess he is one of lesser known English play-writers from those times? :wink:
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New Soul
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Hi Aiks

Yes - I’ve read that Dekker is a name of Dutch origin. He is not that famous among the general British/European population. But he is very well known among academics of English literature.




… continued from my previous post


Now featured right at the beginning of Act I, Bilbo is cast as a high-ranking servant of a Spanish nobleman. As one of the two opening actors, Bilbo’s first words are also strikingly evocative:

“BILBO: Thieves, thieves, thieves!”

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

In this case they resound with Gollum’s famous shrieks – originally drafted as:

“Thief, thief, thief!”

– The History of The Hobbit, The 1947 Hobbit, J. Rateliff, 2007

And then equally compelling in mimicry is how later on we see Bilbo engaged in a pseudo riddle-contest with the play’s ‘fool’. A verbal sparring where each claim to know what the other carries in his pockets.

COXCOMB: Be temperate.  … you bear, swear, tear, rear, and wear; you … wear good clothes, but carry your conscience in torn pockets.

BILBO: Be attentive.  You … bite any catchpole that fangs you, but carry neither conscience nor coin in your whole pockets.

Match me in London, Act 4 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto (my underlined emphasis)


This is all utterly astounding! Literature preceding The Hobbit by centuries featuring: ‘Bilbo’, a character described as a fire-breathing dragon, a triple cry of thievery and a one-on-one battle of wits? What are the odds of that*?

One ought to stop right now and declare ‘game over’. Yet though we have already accumulated four very strong tangencies – remarkably linkage to The Hobbit only strengthens, for several more show up!

… more to come




* Although some of the scholastically-minded will deem such research as being purely a comparative study (i.e. comparing text of The Hobbit against Match me in London), my contention is that the rarity of the combination of ‘Bilbo’ and a ‘fire-breathing dragon’ – puts it well beyond that. Such a pairing (discounting Tolkien’s creation) is not found in the repositories of Archive.org (2.5+ million pre-1923 books scanned & Google.com (15+ million scanned books). Thus the mathematical odds of a fluke combination occurring in Match me in London are remote. Indeed a coincidence being practically impossible when one factors in the presence of the other congruities already touched on and those to be exposed in future posts.

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… continued from previous post


Match me in London is a somewhat lengthy play set around fictional Spanish nobility. I will not fully summarize it for that would extend this post considerably. In any case there are many freely available sources which do an admirable job. Instead, I shall bring to attention some other striking likenesses in comparing matters in the play against The Hobbit, while pointing out who parodies who. For that’s what I believe Tolkien produced – his Hobbit tale was a creation infused with parody!



Image




Bilbo himself is a shrewd and generally faithful servant*. In a way he is not too unlike Mr. Baggins. Under guidance of his master Malevento (a wise ‘Gandalf’ figure) he sets out on a quest to track down a missing Tormiella – the nobleman’s only child and described as a ‘jewel’ of a daughter. She has been in the unwanted clutches of the ‘fire-drake’ Gazetto (‘Smaug’ or ‘Pryftan’ as he was named early on) but is then taken by her true love: Cordolente (‘Thorin’).

Bilbo, the bachelor, parts ways with his master and follows Cordolente (‘Thorin’) and is not reunited with Malevento (‘Gandalf’) until much travel has occurred towards the latter setting of the play. Both Cordolente and Malevento then engage in debate over the legal ownership of Tormiella (‘Arkenstone’) but there is another twist. For adding to the pursuit of the beautiful ‘gem’ is the King of Spain – in a way echoing Thranduil as one of multiple parties seeking to claim a great treasure:

“KING: How shall I get a sight of this rich diamond?”

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 4, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

The ‘diamond’ is seemingly lost, yet eventually the King (‘Thranduil’) fails in his lustful attempt to woo Tormiella, as does Gazetto who re-enters the fray. At the close she ends up in the hands of ‘the rightful owner’ – a parodying echo of the fate of Thorin in the triangle with Smaug and the Arkenstone (or its forerunner, the Gem of Girion).

Getting into specifics – at the beginning of the plot, we are told that Bilbo has to seek out Gazetto (the fire-drake) in the dark and all alone. Dekker had Bilbo lightheartedly (yet ominously) describe Gazetto’s abode as one of:

“BILBO: … everlasting thunder, …”.

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

As soon as the ‘dragon’ Gazetto finds out the ‘treasure’ has gone we are told (in an echo of Smaug’s exhibited rage in leaving his bed and chasing after Bilbo):

“BILBO: Signior Gazetto is horne-mad, and leapt out of his Bed, … so that I think he comes running stark naked after me.”

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

Bilbo is warned that he’s in danger as the ‘fire-drake’ approaches:

“TORMIELLA: You dally with fire, haste, haste, … ”.

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

Remarkably in this foreign setting, the cause behind the lost treasure is ‘thievery’ involving not a Spaniard but:

“BILBO: Tis some Englishman has stol’n her, …” !

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

The ‘dragon’s’ aerial threat against the foreigner is terrifying: 

“GAZETTO: … vengeance follows thee, which flies
like three-fork’d lightning; whom it smites, he dies.”

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

Though on fire inside:

“GAZETTO: … there’s too much fire in me already.”,

Match me in London, Act 3 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

he has to patiently wait for revenge:

“GAZETTO: Till then my vengeance sleepes, …”.
 
– Match me in London, Act 5 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto



… more to come




* Definitely the junior member of the expedition at outset, Bilbo is, nonetheless, not a ‘servant’. The view of others in the tale is less forgiving. Bilbo is referred to as:

“ ‘… that queer little creature that is said to be their servant.’ ”

The Hobbit, A Thief in the Night

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Hi Priya: Impressive unravelling to where you are taking this. Would the Hobbit be a parody to something? I never considered this. :headshake:
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Hello Aiks

The Hobbit being a parody? - I think you are on the right track.
Let’s see if further evidence might firm up a possibility!



… continued from my previous post

If all of this isn’t convincing enough, within the play there are mentions of Bilbo breaking open the door to Gazetto’s (i.e. Smaug’s) dwelling on a fateful day, and a cloak of invisibility – not too far removed from Bilbo in The Hobbit finding the hidden Lonely Mountain door and his acquiring a ring of invisibility:

“BILBO: I’ll beat down the door and put him in mind of a … fatal day for doors to be broken open.”

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

“BILBO: Unless he wore the invisible cloak.”

Match me in London, Act 2 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

Interestingly, it is Bilbo in Dekker’s play who cries out:

“BILBO: … You do me wrong, sir. Though I go in breeches, I am not the roaring girl you take me for.”

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

Again a tangency hinting back at our Bilbo (who by the way also wears breeches) not really being a thief. When asked by Malevento: “What thief seest thou?”, the paradoxical quip back is:

“BILBO: … That ill-favor’d thief, in your candle. None else, not I.”

Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

In any case, “the roaring girl” alludes to another Dekker play based on a famous Elizabethan female thief named Molly Frith (aka Moll Cutpurse) who dressed in male attire, carried a sword, and smoked a pipe!



Image

Frontispiece Quarto of Dekker & Middleton’s, ‘The Roaring Girl’, 1611





All of this repertoire, which I am claiming Tolkien engaged in perusing, may have triggered memories of his own household being robbed in Leeds by a dishonest maid and her unsavory cohorts:

“The Tolkien house is ransacked by burglars. … The family discover that their new maid … is a member of a gang of thieves.”

The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology – Late November-early December 1923, C. Scull & W. Hammond



… to be continued

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Hi Priya! Yes, it was an impression. :nod: *reads the further evidence* The Roaring Girl would be fun for women I imagine. I think it stands for the women who dressed like them and lived an assertive life than the traditional path. There is sadly not much known of them.
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Hello Aiks

I think Tolkien might have taken up the slight suggestion imparted by Dekker’s Bilbo that there was more about him than met the eye. Not a street thief in disguise though.

Maybe Tolkien thought about it. Perhaps he thought his Bilbo was not going to be a common thief like Moll Frith - but one with more respectability?





… continued from my previous post


Getting back to our play of interest, other notable plot details in Dekker’s drama reminiscent of various points and scenes in The Hobbit include the seeking of Tormiella (‘Arkenstone’) in the dark, Bilbo’s trotting and aching heels, a mention of ‘woolly feet’, unstable empty barrels in rough waters provided by the King, and a single destiny changing arrow:

“BILBO: … I cannot see my young mistress …  … ’tis so dark.”

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

“BILBO: … my heels ache with trotting, …”.

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

“GAZETTO: … Thanks, vengeance; thou as last art come, Though with wooly feet, …”.

– Match me in London, Act 2 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

“KING: … give this tumbling whale Empty barrels to play with till this troublous seas, …”.

– Match me in London, Act 5 – Scene 1, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

“KING: … Th’ast but one arrow to shoote, and that’s thy flight,”.

– Match me in London, Act 4 – Scene 3, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

As to the later part of the plot, Bilbo becomes a shopkeeper* in keeping close to Tormiella (‘Arkenstone’) and Cordolente (‘Thorin’). Visited by his old master Malevento (‘Gandalf’), Cordolente is instructed to look after Bilbo:

“MALEVENTO: Oh, pray son, use Bilbo Caveare** well.”

– Match me in London, Act 2 – Scene 4, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

However, it is Bilbo that allows the ‘gem’ to be taken away to the King by Lady Dildoman. For those two have schemed to deprive Cordolente (‘Thorin’) of his ‘diamond’. Seemingly lost, Cordolente then pleads with the King (‘Thranduil’) to have her returned. Right at the end of the play, the King relinquishes his claim and allows the ‘jewel’ back into the hands of Cordolente where she rightfully belongs!


How many parallels does one need?

No way can all this be coincidence?

What we are seeing is the true origin behind Tolkien’s fairytale quest … surely?





* A faint connection of Gloin likening Bilbo to a ‘grocer’ at outset.

** ‘Caveare’ was Elizabethan spelling for ‘caviar’ – regarded as a ‘bourgeois’ dish in those times – as it is now.

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Priya: Hi! I don't remember Tolkien ever mentioning Dekker anywhere. It could be as you say? Lady Dildoman? :rofl: Really what a name... Who names a character like that? Pretty colourful. :lol:

1. How many parallels does one need? I have no idea.
2. No way can all this be coincidence? It still can be.
3. What we are seeing is the true origin behind Tolkien’s fairytale quest … surely? I am never certain of it. There ought to be a reference in Tolkien's own works about it, that he used it, or that he talked it in his communication with friends etc. I remain skeptical, but that you know about me. Still interesting what you are able to come up with, after such deep research. :thumbs:
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Hello Aiks

Yes, you are right. There is no record of Tolkien ever mentioning Dekker.
I think this is a weakness in my proposal. Despite all the evidence, I see you remain skeptical. And that is fine.

Nevertheless, I think I have to attempt to provide some evidence, however weak it maybe to try to win over those that might be sitting on the fence.

So with that, the focus of my next few posts is to try and address, what I think is a key knowledge gap among Tolkien scholars interested in biographical details. Please excuse me if my look into where Tolkien might have run across Dekker comes across as boring!

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Drama in Tolkien’s Life




Play Time

One might surmise that for ‘The Last Stage’ – the title of The Hobbit’s final chapter, there purposely exists for the reader to dwell upon – an implicit link to stage drama. Thus this is a good time to reiterate and reemphasize the importance of ‘plays’ to the Professor’s way of thinking. Because I feel the reader needs to better comprehend Tolkien’s affinity to classical drama beyond pure entertainment value. Though certainly that was influential.



Image


‘The Hobbit’ School Play Pamphlet – play authorized and attended by Tolkien





So to try and assuage skeptics, a little deeper look into is needed on, what I believe is, the play origin of Bilbo’s great adventure. Begging to be directly asked is:

‘How did Match me in London – the inspiration behind much of the plot behind The Hobbit tale – come across Tolkien’s desk?

How did Thomas Dekker become known to him?

What prompted Tolkien to take interest in Jacobean drama?’

These are all questions that have to be asked and then answered as best can be. Without doubt there is much unrecorded, so we may never be certain – but viable and believable explanations have to be offered. Otherwise, understandably, credence on any reader’s part will be mighty hard to gain. Right now there is a dangling loose end.

So what I’m about to do is highlight where and when Tolkien might have had an opportunity to delve into Elizabethan and Jacobean plays beyond those of Shakespeare. In particular, I will restrict exploration to a time period before the inception of The Hobbit. For obviously it must have been during this earlier part of life that he ran across Match me in London. Because according to my contention the skeleton plot of his first real literary hit originated from Thomas Dekker’s 1611 handicraft.

The lower band of my investigation will be set at the start of Tolkien’s undergraduate years at the University of Oxford. There is hardly anything of significance relating to acting or participation in drama activities we can gather from his early childhood. In his last two years of attending King Edward’s School, we know he had roles in two plays by Aristophanes: The Birds in July 1910 and The Peace in July 1911. However these were one-off ‘year-end’ productions. Though an interest in drama had begun to be fostered, when it came to studying English playwrights during schooling*, Tolkien cleanly confessed it didn’t extend further than Shakespeare:

“I went to King Edward’s School and spent most of my time learning Latin and Greek; but I also learned English. Not English Literature! Except Shakespeare …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #163 – 7 June 1955, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

Using John Tolkien’s diary entry of New Years Day 1930**, the upper band will be set as the summer of 1929. By then the Professor had begun writing The Hobbit. What we are left with then is broadly four periods worth scrutinizing. Those being: undergraduate attendance at the University of Oxford, then a short stint at the New English Dictionary, followed by a University of Leed’s teaching tenure, and finally early years back at Oxford after his appointment as Rawlinson and Bosworth Professor of Anglo-Saxon.


… to be continued




* Despite Tolkien’s denial of a lack of formal school education related to playwrights other than William Shakespeare, there exist the scantest of hints that he and fellow schoolboys could have had some exposure and knowledge of them. Material pertinent to Tolkien’s time is difficult to attain, but one edition of the King Edward’s School Chronicle (see October 1880 Edition, Volume I, No. 4 – pgs. 68 & 69) during the times of his father’s (A.R. Tolkien) association to the school, records an enactment of Ben Jonson’s play: Everyman in His Humour, 1598 praising the performance of the boy playing the character of the ‘braggart’ Captain Bobadil!  





Image


Extract from ‘King Edward’s School Chronicle’, 1880, Vol. I, No. 4 – pg. 68



** See Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth, pg. 290, 2018 by Catherine McIlwaine.
Last edited by Priya on Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hi Priya: I don't think Dekker is necessarily a weakness in your proposal. But obtaining information about the right school materials from early 1900's is near impossible. Bout rosters, who worked all there or what book materials were used in various classes. Perhaps lists of the students still exist in the archives, but personal results and records often not anymore, same as addresses. Even the schools might not exist anymore?

With the subject English Language & Literature for schoolkids between 11/12 to 17/18 years old there was a school program/currculum. The system was directed on book learning facts. With the approach of this century that changed to learning via self research than just stamping facts in your head. I have no idea what the youth today learns or how. Something about the Jacobean area must have passed by Tolkien in his highschool days, but what? I hope you are able to find a few interesting facts, if Dekker could have been part of the curriculum for English Language & Literature? :wink:
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Hello Aiks

Yes, much is ‘lost’. There is meager information from Tolkien’s schooldays now available.

But, as you will see in future posts - I think it is post-school where it is most likely he ran across Dekker.




… continued from my previous post

Before I move on to discuss other time spans, I must emphasize that Thomas Dekker was far from an obscure literary personality. Yes, by no means was Dekker considered a lightweight. Acknowledged as one of the most prolific Renaissance playwrights, among scholars his name is regularly associated to a small group of well-recognized dramatists of the era. That is especially true when it came to publishing play pamphlets:

“… the most important pamphleteer of Jacobean London is, undoubtedly, Thomas Dekker. Apart from his dramatic work, Dekker stands alone in this period.”

– The Cambridge History of English Literature, Volume IV – Chapter XVI – pg. 351, A.W. Ward & A.R. Waller, 1909

Nor has his name or talent been forgotten in modern times. The famed British rock band ‘The Beatles’ included poetry from Dekker’s 1603 comedy Patient Grissel in the lyrics of their Golden Slumbers song!




Image

Play Pamphlet of Thomas Dekker’s ‘Patient Grissel’,1603





Also to be emphasized, is that our knowledge of what Tolkien read in the period between 1911 and 1929 is quite skimpy; there are only eight letters to rifle through in Humphrey Carpenter’s Revised and Expanded The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 2023 pertaining to such a time frame. And Christina Scull and Wayne Hammond’s Chronology from The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide, 2017 Edition provides little further insight. Unfortunately, the titles of the books making up the vast bulk of Tolkien’s personal library (greater than 400 books) are still unknown at this time. However, we can establish with surety that his reading repertoire was extensive – though much of it remains a mystery.

… to be continued

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Hi Priya, ah you think it is post school? True that could be too. I'll read your next segments. I am curious to your interpretation on the matter at hand. I know you'll come up with nice new insights. :smile: Don't worry, I am not far off...
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Hello Aiks

I want to try to cover four different timespans where Tolkien might have run across Dekker. Sorry - if it’s a bit boring. I’m trying to be scholarly about this and not get straight to the meatiest evidence. And in the process it ought to become apparent that Tolkien enjoyed drama ‘in general’ - which slightly helps my case.




Undergraduate Period 1911-1915


Now remarkably while in his first year at Exeter College we see Tolkien once again actively engaged in theatrical shows. Just before Christmas of 1911, he was invited back to King Edward’s School and performed in a stage play called The Rivals with fellow T.C.B.S. members. Cast in the female role of Mrs. Malaprop, the enactment was a huge hit:

“… the performance was a thorough success both artistically and financially. … J.R.R. Tolkien’s Mrs Malaprop was a real creation, excellent in every way …”.

King Edward’s School Chronicle, The Musical and Dramatic Society, pg. 10, March 1912

Perhaps building on an innate and emerging talent, further acting merriment ensued:

“Tolkien probably spends part of the vacation with his Incledon relatives at Barnt Green. They have the custom of performing theatrical entertainments during the holiday, including the farce Cherry Farm probably written by Tolkien.”

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, C. Scull & W. Hammond, Christmas 1911

In the following year the habitual dramatic activity resulted in a new production:

“He has written a play for them, The Bloodhound, the Chef, and the Suffragette. In its performance he plays the leading part of ‘Professor Joseph Quilter, …’ …”.

- The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, C. Scull & W. Hammond, Christmas 1912

And we learn that in 1913 while with family he:

“… apparently is again involved in amateur theatricals …”.

The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, C. Scull & W. Hammond, Late December 1913 – early January 1914 




Image


‘Exeter College Smoker’ – college concert programme, illustrated by Tolkien





So by now we have accumulated enough evidence to glean that plays and theater interested a young Tolkien. Seemingly also deducible is that he excelled in live performing, with a hinted-at aptitude in writing drama too. However so far, we can garnish no specific evidence or knowledge of involvement with non-Shakespearean Renaissance drama.


… to be continued
Last edited by Priya on Sun Nov 24, 2024 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hello Priya, three timespans? I see, sounds clear and interesting to digest properly I think. By the turn of the 20th century in general sense there lay a lot of emphasis to act in plays and dramas at school, before either of the two wars. People were educated in a multifaceted way. What a century later is pretty different. :smile:
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Hello Aiks

Agreed. How times have changed!



… continued from my previous post

We do know that during early Exeter years Tolkien gained membership to several clubs. Among these were the Apolausticks*– a club centered on discussing bygone literary figures. Was Thomas Dekker among them? Who knows – but there is nothing documented one can point too.

It isn’t till we start looking into Tolkien’s English Literature syllabus** that it emerges period dramatic studies were part of the educational curriculum. Passing English Literature examinations required the study of literary greats other than Shakespeare. According to Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond, Tolkien likely attended:

“… D. Nichol Smith’s lectures on English Literature from Caxton to Milton …”,

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, Trinity Term 1914, C. Scull & W. Hammond

a period spanning 1500-1674, thus including both Elizabethan and Jacobean times. Then even more apropos – in the Hilary Term of 1915:

“He also attends Sir Walter Raleigh’s*** lectures on Drama in the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries …”.

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, Hilary Term 1915, C. Scull & W. Hammond

And just as pertinent – later on in the Trinity Term of 1915 it is probable he made it to:

“… Percy Simpson’s lectures on Elizabethan drama …”.

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, Hilary Term 1915, C. Scull & W. Hammond

All of this was done in aid of answering questions in finals. Prior to taking these exams Tolkien borrowed**** from Exeter College’s library: The Cambridge History of English Literature. This of course references Thomas Dekker and Match me in London. Though to be fair the book series ran to twelve substantial volumes, thus leaving simply too weak a connection to offer as proof.

Although the English Language and Literature tests put forward in the Oxford Regulations of the Board of Studies, set compulsory questions on Shakespeare and Chaucer, other notables such as Dryden, Milton and Caxton were regular candidates. Also, it appears it was usual for at least one to be centered on a dramatic figure of the English Renaissance period. For Tolkien’s finals, the renowned Elizabethan playwright ‘Chrisopher Marlowe’***** was one of the set questions for Honours Literature students:

“Tolkien sits Paper A5: History of English Literature. There are twelve questions, with no limit on the number to be answered: one each on Old English poetry; Langland and Chaucer; William Caxton as writer and translator; Christopher Marlowe; …”.

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, 12 June 1915, C. Scull & W. Hammond  

According to the Oxford Regulations of the Board of Studies, Paper A5: would have come under:

“5. The Age of Shakespeare.”
- Examination Statutes, Academical Year 1915-1916, Scheme of Papers

This would probably have been the one whereby a question****** on Thomas Dekker could have been posed. Indeed, per The Oxford Magazine and also announced in The Academy and Literature – Dekker was certainly not ignored by the academic establishment:

“Mr. A.H. BULLEN’s course of six lectures on “Elizabethan Poets” are now being delivered at Oxford in the New Schools, … the poets selected being: Michael Drayton, Samuel Daniel, Thomas Dekker, …”.

The Academy and Literature, Volume 35, University Jottings – pg. 181, 1889   (my underlined emphasis)




Image


Play Pamphlet of Thomas Dekker’s most famous work, ‘The Shoemaker’s Holiday’





Hmm … so after careful thought we may justly conclude a determined and studiously-minded Tolkien was virtually forced to study playwrights other than Shakespeare. Both during set lectures and through necessary research in his own time.

… to be continued



* Tolkien was actually the founder of the club.

** Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond per The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide – 2017 Edition, Reader’s Guide, Oxford English School – pg. 951 provide the syllabus Tolkien took as an undergraduate. It is not broken down in as much detail as that given post 1933 (pgs. 954-955) which per Courses II & III required the compulsory study of ‘Shakespeare and Contemporary English Dramatists’. Although the syllabus underwent reorganization after Tolkien’s undergraduate days – the subject study material was pretty much unchanged. Without question Tolkien would have been required to study Shakespeare’s contemporaries – but exactly who remains mostly unknown.

*** Tolkien comments in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #46 – 26 November 1941, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981 that he thought Walter Raleigh was “not … a good lecturer”. From which we can tenuously presume that Tolkien did not enjoy his lectures on 16th and 17th Century English drama. Though being knighted in 1911 and the first holder of the Chair of English Literature at the University of Oxford, one would think that Tolkien felt constrained to ‘show his face’ and attend the most distinguished and senior member of the English Department’s lessons.

**** The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, by Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond, Addenda & Corrigenda to Chronology 10 June 1915.

***** When in the chair of Merton Professor of English Language and Literature – Tolkien examined externally for the National University of Ireland. As such he, with his Irish counterpart, set a question on the Jacobean dramatist, John Webster and the early Elizabethan dramatists Thomas Norton/Thomas Sackville’s Gorboduc:

“One of the papers Tolkien set with Professor Diarmuid Murphy is concerned with … Gorboduc as a stage play, and the Jacobean dramatist John Webster.”
The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2017 Edition, Addenda & Corrigenda to Chronology, 22 June–5 July 1949, C. Scull & W. Hammond

Along with Marlowe then – the setting of exam questions on playwrights Norton, Sackville and Webster, further strengthens the case that ‘famous’ English Renaissance dramatists (and their plays) were required to be subjects of study as part of Tolkien’s undergraduate syllabus.

****** Dekker’s works spans both Elizabethan and Jacobean eras.

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Hi Priya, ah this is much longer. You put some work into writing this. Off course the exam would not only be about Shakespeare, but also other writers and players on the literary front. Interesting that period 1500- 1674. :wink: I slowly begin to see some connections. Good info. :lol:
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Post-war Employment at the New English Dictionary (NED)

After discharge from the British Army in 1918, Tolkien sought employment when jobs were few and competition stiff. His first salaried position was at the New English Dictionary under the auspices of one the four editors: Henry Bradley. Working as his assistant within a small team, Tolkien was tasked to provide input in compiling a comprehensive new dictionary of the English Language. As well as etymology/meanings/nuances, it was planned that entries would also contain the earliest known reference source as well as multiple historical examples of handed-down usage up to the modern day.

Tolkien worked at the NED for less than 2 years, and during that time he said:

“I learned more in those two years than in any other equal period of my life even though it lasted barely eighteen months, from the end of 1918 to the spring of 1920).”
- Tolkien: A biography, H. Carpenter, 1977

Now Tolkien was assigned to deal with a number of words beginning with the letter ‘W’.



Image





The best source outlining his tasks is The Ring of Words by P. Gilliver, J. Marshall & E. Weiner, 2006. According to this book, input and information on words was mostly provided by select group of researchers who had over a period of many years sent in quotation evidence on slips of paper. The assistants actually working at the NED, of which Tolkien was one, would collate, organize and make much use of the Dictionary Slips. When it came to finalizing a word entry each assistant would:

“… tackle all aspects of the final text - pronunciation, variant spellings, and etymology, as well as the divisions of each entry into senses and subsenses, the selection of quotations to illustrate these, and the writing of definitions.”
- The Ring of Words, Editing the Dictionary - pg. 9, P. Gilliver/J. Marshall/E. Weiner, 2006. (my underlined emphasis)

In examining all of the word entries Tolkien is known to have worked on, as listed in the ‘Dictionary’s’ first release, there exist many quotations* from just about all the better known Elizabethan/Jacobean playwrights. But of interest particularly to us, there are seven references to Thomas Dekker, and six of his plays:

Waist Item 2c Dekker & Webster 1607 North-ward hoe

Waistcoat Item 4a Dekker 1603 The batchelars banquet

Wild Part III Item 16. Dekker 1608 Lanthorne & candle-light

Water Part I 1f Dekker 1608 Lanthorne & candle-light

Water Part VII 24i Dekker 1630 2 nd pt. The honest whore

Water Part II Intransitive uses item 14 1607 Dekker Webster West-ward hoe

Winter. Item 3c Dekker 1609 Raven’s Almanack



From this study, one can reasonably conclude that Tolkien had at least run across the name Thomas Dekker. And that he knew of him as a dramatist. Yet we cannot conclude that Match me in London had come to his attention - though it is listed as a quotation source for the ‘Dictionary’ (see below).



Image



… to be continued





* Quotations for Tolkien’s assigned words beginning with the letter ‘W’ are taken from the works of dramatists:

William Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Christopher Marlowe, Robert Greene, Thomas Nashe, George Peele, Thomas Heywood, John Marston, Francis Beaumont, John Fletcher, John Webster, John Lyly …. and others.

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Hi Priya: An interesting entry again to read. I didn't know that Tolkien contributed to the English dictionary. Thanks for posting!
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Hello Aiks

I think working for the ‘Dictionary’ was extremely beneficial in making Tolkien a well-rounded philologist - and I think he would have agreed!


… continued from my previous post …


The University of Leeds Tenure 1920-1925

On the 1st of October 1920 Tolkien accepted a position of Reader in English Language at the University of Leeds under Professor G.S. Gordon. When it came to responsibilities, Tolkien’s teaching and research activities were limited to Middle English and earlier – and didn’t extend to an era that I am focused on. However:

“The staff of the School of English Language and Literature at Leeds, in addition to Gordon and Tolkien, consists of only two Assistant Lecturers and one Tutor in English Composition.”

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, 1 October 1920, C. Scull & W. Hammond

Due to a lack of across the board subject knowledge depth among the various tutors, along with a non-abundant faculty, it is quite possible that Tolkien would need on occasions to teach, when called for, outside of what we understand as his area of expertise. Perhaps this is indicated by:

“Tolkien might also be responsible for the first few lectures in an introductory course on English Literature which begins with … and then moves on to Shakespeare, etc., …”.

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2006 Edition, Chronology, Leeds academic year 1920-1921, C. Scull & W. Hammond

So though Shakespeare might well have been taught – there is also the slightest of clues that there was more from this era that Tolkien knew of. But certainly there’s not enough to indicate other Elizabethan playwrights were lectured on – let alone Dekker.

Lastly while at Leeds Tolkien began earning extra money by marking school certificate papers. But school curricula lacked depth. Detailed study beyond Shakespeare would likely have not stretched to Dekker. However by 1923 Tolkien became an external examiner for the English Final Honour School examinations at Oxford. Additionally, without specifying a time frame, it has been reported that:

“Besides his duties at Oxford, Tolkien often acted as an external examiner for other universities, …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Footnote to Letter #28 – 4 June 1938, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

Disappointingly there isn’t any hint of what Tolkien marked and what his knowledge would need to extend to.

So in conclusion, though examination of this time period doesn’t reveal any solid connection to Dekker - it’s the next time period that is far more interesting!

New Soul
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Priya: As any other graduate, or near one, these young scholars took on what they could get, or were offered. It was time also to have expertise outside your field, as extra. Shopping in the neighbouring fields of the English language and literature. Professors do help young tutors and suggest books and classes to read and follow. But if a internship comes up, they suggest that also, or a research trip abroad. It all adds to the startup of an academic career. Being an external examiner at other universities is part of the game to become an academic. :smile:
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Hello Aiks
As any other graduate, or near one, these young scholars took on what they could get, or were offered. It was time also to have expertise outside your field, as extra. Shopping in the neighbouring fields of the English language and literature. Professors do help young tutors and suggest books and classes to read and follow. But if an internship comes up, they suggest that also, or a research trip abroad. It all adds to the startup of an academic career. Being an external examiner at other universities is part of the game to become an academic.
Absolutely! :thumbs:

It’s a curious fact that Professors also learn much from their students. It’s not entirely a one way street!




… continued from my previous post …



The University of Oxford Professorship 1925-1929

As a newly appointed Professor of the Anglo-Saxon chair, there can be little doubt that Tolkien’s agenda must have been highly focused on delivering and researching period material exclusively relevant to that Age of English history. Nonetheless, a new external factor appeared out of the blue. C.S. Lewis arrived on the scene.

In 1926 warm beginnings to a long and mutually beneficial friendship kindled a passion to discuss literature on a regular basis. Lewis’s arena of expertise complemented Tolkien’s. Indeed, he had much to offer because from a literature standpoint 16th and 17th Century English history was his bread and butter subject material. As a lecturer, a student once reported that for Christmas vacation reading:

“He never prepared any lists; the titles just tumbled out of his memory. He once rattled off a list of twenty or thirty Elizabethan and Jacobean plays we might read, …”.

– Remembering C.S. Lewis: Recollections of Those who Knew Him, The Tutor: A Portrait, J.T. Como, 2005

Yes, Lewis’s familiarity with Renaissance drama is echoed by his vast personal library. Within a collection of ~2400 books* – there’s a substantial quantity belonging to plays and playwrights of this period. Though ones dedicated to the study of Dekker are not among them, this is not altogether surprising since expositions on Dekker’s works were relatively rare prior to the 1920’s. Of the little available, most were classified as collectors items and thus too valuable for the ordinary academic to purchase. In any case the Bodleian Library was near at hand – Lewis didn’t need personal copies for every playwright. As early as 1928 he was using the facility extensively:

“Jack’s description of the Bodleian is classic. … if the Bodleian just had upholstered chairs, and you could smoke, then it would be the most delightful place in the world. … Jack would often sit in Duke Humfrey’s Library, the oldest part of the Bodleian … There he would order the books he wished to peruse, …”.

– C.S. Lewis Life, Works and Legacy: Vol 1 An Examined Life, Chapter 7 – pgs. 154-155, B.L. Edwards, 2007


Image

Duke Humfrey’s Library, The Bodleian, Oxford





Unless Match me in London is buried in one of the general books on Renaissance drama Lewis possessed, which I have been unable to discover, we can conclude that it is unlikely Tolkien perused it during the many informal evenings spent socializing at his friend’s university lodging. Nor can we say that Tolkien joined him on occasions at the Bodleian. Once again there is no record on the matter. But being an Oxford Don – Tolkien absolutely must have used the library in a similar manner to conduct his own research**.

Now Lewis was also a member*** of another university society:

“Every other Tuesday night was a meeting with the Mermaid Club, reading Elizabethan and post-Elizabethan Drama.”

– C.S. Lewis Life, Works, and Legacy: Vol 1 An Examined Life, Chapter 7 – pg. 152, B.L. Edwards, 2007

It was one that often met at a local pub – with seemingly more drinking than academic study – perhaps mirroring Tolkien’s Viking Club at Leeds:

“I am entertaining the Mermaids tonight, drat ’em. They are nothing but a drinking, guffawing cry of barbarians with hardly any taste among them, …”.

Letters of C.S. Lewis, 1st April 1927 – pg. 225, edited by W. Hooper, 2003

Tolkien certainly participated occasionally, perhaps repaying Lewis for the courtesy of his attendance at The Kolbitars (club meetings held on alternate Tuesdays):

“At Oxford Tolkien was also associated with the Mermaid Club, a small society (founded 1902) whose aim was to promote the reading and study of Elizabethan and post-Elizabethan drama. Tolkien was a guest at the Club’s annual dinner held on 25 February 1933, and present at the annual dinner on 5 March 1938. His friend H.F.B. Brett-Smith was a Life Member and frequently President, and Tolkien himself appears as an Honorary Member in a list of life and honorary members dated 1936–7.”

– The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2017 Edition, Addenda & Corrigenda to Reader’s Guide, Societies and Clubs – pgs. 1231-1237, C. Scull & W. Hammond

But again, there is no record of Dekker’s plays ever being read out aloud.



… to be continued



* The biggest holding of Lewis’s personal library is at the Marion E. Wade Center, Wheaton College, Illinois. It reputedly holds a collection of greater than 2360 volumes.

** At least one record of Tolkien ‘borrowing’ from the Bodleian Library exists. From The J.R.R. Tolkien Companion & Guide 2017 Edition, by Christina Scull & Wayne Hammond, Addenda & Corrigenda to Chronology 27 February 1939:

“Tolkien consults several books in the Bodleian Library, Oxford, evidently as research for his Andrew Lang lecture …”.

*** Lewis joined the Mermaid Club in 1926 and became its president in 1927.

New Soul
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Hi Priya! An interesting analysis so far. It is true that Profs also learn from their students. Research leads to new insights and those shift constantly. It is indeed not a one way street. :nod:
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Hello Aiks, so below is from whom I think Tolkien learned of Dekker’s Match me in London!



… continued from my previous post

Switching from Lewis to an Oxford Don and colleague of Tolkien’s who is of great interest in this investigation, there is the remarkable Frank Percy Wilson. Remarkable because his life shared so much in common with Tolkien’s. Educated at the very same King Edward’s school in Birmingham he went on to fight in the Somme just like Tolkien. He too required a long hospital convalescence before being discharged from the British Army. In another parallel, his path led him to the University of Leeds and then finally back to the University of Oxford where he became a fellow Don in the English department at Merton College. Both Tolkien and Wilson received degrees from Oxford.

When Tolkien gained his professorial position at Oxford in 1925, Wilson was present serving as a lecturer. We know that Wilson didn’t leave for Leeds until 1929 where he gained a promotion to Professor of Literature. And though not recorded – it wouldn’t be at all surprising if Tolkien was used as a recommendation. During the four years of co-presence in the 20’s we know Wilson and Tolkien rubbed shoulders in faculty committee meetings. Yet what is of intriguing interest is that Wilson was an authority on Thomas Dekker.

In 1913 Wilson had earned a B. Litt. with a thesis on Dekker while at the University of Oxford’s Lincoln College. Then in 1924 and 1925 respectively, he went on to re-publish (with editorials) Dekker’s Foure Birds of Noahs Arke and Plague Pamphlets of Thomas Dekker.



Image

Front Cover: ‘The Plague Pamphlets of Thomas Dekker’, F.P. Wilson, 1925





Dekker was Wilson’s prime specialty. As well as possessing an unrivaled understanding of his drama, he spent many years working on a four volume edition of the playwright’s prose works – which sadly never reached completion. Certainly in his possession would have been John Pearson’s four volume The Dramatic Works of Thomas Dekker, 1873 – which was then the most readily available publication containing Match me in London.

According to biographers, Wilson was:

“the most learned Elizabethan scholar of his generation, as well as a master of social graces and a witty conversationalist.”

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, 2004, J. Robertson and P.J. Connell

Sounds just like the sort of person Tolkien would have relished interacting with. And one can understand how the rarely remarked on cooperation with Wilson in the early 50’s is something we ought to consider. Both Tolkien and Wilson were General Editors of B.L. Joseph’s Oxford English Monographs: Elizabethan Acting.



Image


Tolkien co-general Editor of ‘Elizabethan Acting’, B.L. Joseph, 1951




Adding to this web of intrigue is that Wilson was C.S. Lewis’s tutor in the early 1920’s. And so within such a triangle one can easily imagine that somewhere along the line Tolkien encountered Dekker’s Match me in London.

Of course, I cannot prove it. That would be too high an aim. All that I can do is show that the opportunity was there. There in the right time frame. And there right in front of him!

New Soul
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Hi Priya, ah very interesting to read. For me there doesn't have to be real prove, dear. You write it pretty convincingly that it could have been very well that way.

Very wet days with gushes of wind with the trail that storm Eowyn leaves behind over western Europe, here in Holland, Belgium and France and more north Denmark.
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Hello Aiks

I did wonder who named that storm Eowyn?
Definitely a Lord of the Rings fan !!!

Anyhow, Just a short little wrap up with some last thoughts to leave one pondering upon wouldn’t go amiss right now. After that I’m going to have a crack at looking at what many researchers have delved into, namely the invented word: Hobbit. Except from a completely different angle from anyone else!



… continued from my previous post


All Play and no Work makes Jack a dull Boy

Yet, after all of this, Plaza readers are quite entitled to wonder whether I have sufficiently well answered the three questions at the beginning of my investigative efforts per ‘Drama in Tolkien’s Life’. My own opinion is – only partially.

Of those – inadequately addressed is: ‘What prompted Tolkien to take interest in Jacobean drama?’.

Hmm … it is certainly the most difficult to fathom the reason behind. Resorting to a stab in the dark is of least preference. Even Bilbo would agree! Yet, if not a stab, a leap in the dark I must take!

My belief is that much revolves around the mysterious process of ‘invention’. Specifically the invention of a fairy tale. It is at this ‘last stage’ that I must guess – yet the guess I think is a shrewd one.

We must not forget that by 1925 Tolkien was a professor. No less a respected Oxford Don; just about the most prestigious academic position one can gain within the English academic system. Tolkien didn’t think like the average person. If a fairy tale was going to be published with his name as author then it better have some sound structure and coherency to it. The background would necessarily require some sort of academic framework. One can quite easily see how such a reflexive action had naturally become ingrained given the institutions and academic works Tolkien had been associated to and become attuned to.

And this is where we have to acknowledge an important and pertinent fact when it comes to classic English fairy-stories. Many could only be traced back as far as Elizabethan and Jacobean play pamphlets. Which is probably the reason for Tolkien’s interest in them in the first place. An outstanding example is George Peele’s The Old Wives’ Tale:

“In constructing his play Peele made use of four principal tales, Childe Roland, The Sleeping Beauty, Jack, the Giant Killer, and The Three Heads of the Well.”

The Old Wives’ Tale A Play by George Peele, Edited with Notes and Introduction by F. W. Candy, 1911

Let’s face it – a quest such as Jack’s was (and still is) an attractive story-line. With one for a dragon’s treasure-hoard even more so. Rooted in pseudo historical/legendary accounts of Beowulf and The Story of Sigurd, his tale would similarly need a hero. And why not Jack of English fairy tale fame? Or rather an archetype reflecting his concocted opinion of the true source of the eponymous hero.

Yet who really was Jack? Did anyone know? No – this important detail was long forgotten, but there was one trait which could definitely be surmised. That being: Jack was technically a rather ‘clever burglar’. 

Tolkien would surely have loved to source Jack back much further than Elizabethan times. But this is where the trail went cold. The furthest he could go back was to Thomas Nashe’s Have with you to Saffron-Walden*. No disaster though. The same era held some of the earliest depictions of rogues and ‘clever’ English thieves through the five renowned ‘cony-catching’ pamphlets of Robert Greene. And ‘burglary’ was what he was interested in!

Tolkien had already almost certainly become familiar with the cony-catching phrase through Shakespeare where the term is allusively mentioned in The Taming of the Shrew and The Merry Wives of Windsor. Researching Greene’s play pamphlets would eventually lead to those of Thomas Dekker where cony-catching was likewise an important theme. These plays were: The Honest Whore, Bellman of London, Lanthorne and Candle-light, Villainies Discovered by Candlelight, and English Villainies. But then, I speculate, one day he stumbled upon Match me in London – a tragi-comedy with another English thief. One who had stolen a great ‘gem’ from a ‘fire-drake’! 



Image

Play Pamphlet of Robert Greene’s, ‘A Notable Discovery of Coosenage’, 1591




Tolkien I am sure spent quite some time pondering on Dekker’s last published play – but from this and these other English historical documents he saw the beginnings of a fairy-story with the hero associated to rabbits and cony-catching. If I were to guess – this is the path that led to The Hobbit. For all of a sudden the threads of a tale came together – a case of ‘bingo’!

Or should I say Bungo**^***


* See Tolkien’s essay: English and Welsh. Nashe’s play employs a variant of the ‘fe-fi-fo-fum’ giant refrain:
“Fee, fa, fum, here is the Englishman, …”.

The Old Wives’ Tale, G. Peele, 1595

One might wonder how would Tolkien have known Nashe and this particular play? Why would he have been interested in the legendary cry? The fact that he was ready and willing to include it (and provide the Elizabethan source) implies the citation was not a product of casual research. 


** According to: A Dictionary of Archaic & Provincial Words, Obsolete Phrases, Proverbs & Ancient Customs, from the Fourteenth Century, 1855 by James Orchard Halliwell – per pg. 219, one root of ‘Bungo’ – Bilbo’s father, might be: 

Bung. (1) A pick-pocket.

Was this another ‘low philological jest’ of Tolkien’s? Where Bungo had ‘picked’ Belladonna’s ‘pockets’ to build Bag End? 

“Bungo, that was Bilbo’s father, built the most luxurious hobbit-hole for her (and partly with her money) ….”.

The Hobbit, An Unexpected Party 


*** It is curious that the character Huanebango introduces himself through the ogre refrain and then:

“… here is the Englishman, …”.

– The Old Wives’ Tale, G. Peele, 1595

Perhaps this was echoed by Thomas Dekker in Match me in London by Bilbo:

“BILBO: Tis some Englishman has stol’n her, …” !

– Match me in London, Act 1 – Scene 2, Play by T. Dekker, 1631 Quarto

In any case, what can be reasonably perceived is that Jack had a Spanish connection. Not only because of the classic ogre lines, but also beause ‘Huan’ is equivalent to ‘John’, while ‘Jack’ is a diminutive and common translation of ‘John’.

And it’s this sort of bare trace that Tolkien would likely have used. Much had intentionally been garbled by Peele in the melange of fairy tale employment within his play. But Tolkien might have taken whatever he could and tried to make sense of it. He might have tried to extract the truth. His ‘truth’, of course. Then perhaps ‘Huanebango’ was equivalent to ‘Jack son of Bango’; which over time had become a distortion from: ‘Jack son of Bungo’!

New Soul
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Hi Priya, it is name from the English weather service. Holland, UK and Ireland are in the western group to use these names. Interesting argument in your post. Do you really believe you haven't answered those three questions well enough? I cannot say for myself you have. I read it. :thumbs:
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Hello Aiks

I think my answers to those three questions are reasonable. Perhaps one day more information will come to light strengthening my case?



…continued from my previous post


Inventive Parody

‘Hobbits’ – eh?

Ever thought whether there was more behind the invented name? More than we currently know, that is. Ever thought why hobbits were ‘designed’ as small yet so very human-like?

“Hobbits were a breed of which the chief physical mark was their stature; …”.

– The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #281 – 15 December 1965, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

“… ‘hobbits’ were … a diminutive branch of the human race.”

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #319 – 8 January 1971, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

Or why they made their homes in holes with round doors in the sides of hills?

“… The Hill, … and many little round doors opened out of it, …”.

The Hobbit, An Unexpected Party

Hmm … the Professor must have had his reasons. Perhaps we can uncover them if matters are viewed from a combination of angles. Perhaps we can attain convergence if those angles include not only fairy tale/myth/legend but also scientific and historical components. But first to the former!

Tolkien’s bent towards mythology and fairy-story undoubtedly became ingrained from early youth. At the forefront lay a strong desire to discover origins. To answer the how, why, when and where behind them presented a worthy intellectual challenge:

“… I feel strongly, the fascination of the attempt to unravel the intricately knotted and ramified history of fairy-tales …”.

Tolkien On Fairy-stories, Manuscript B – pg. 219, V. Flieger and D. Anderson, 2014

Of course the very last knot in disentangling a singular tale is the one identifying the source of its invention and the writer who first documented it. Such knowledge was highly desirable:

“… I am interested in mythological ‘invention’, and the mystery of literary creation …”.

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #180 – 14 January 1956, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

Buried deep in the past, most often the information is just not traceable. Nevertheless, in discussing the three components making up the history of a fairy-story, Tolkien pronounced:

“… invention is the most important and fundamental, and … most mysterious.”

The Monsters and the Critics and Other Essays, On Fairy-stories – pg. 121, HarperCollins, 1983

Mysterious because there is no universal law of nature governing the event. Moreover, the cause of ignition which sends a spark inspiring genuine literary creativity is usually a well-guarded matter. For some strange reason writers prefer to surround the subject with an aura of mystique. They tend not to spill all and go ‘open kimono’. Instead, they often skirt around the heart of the matter, offer tantalizing details – yet fail to exercise full disclosure.

Occasionally the reason revolves around something too personal to divulge. Other times it’s personal yet thoroughly uninteresting or utterly trivial to anyone but the author. But sometimes that spark of imagination is not true creation but ‘subcreation’. By that I mean it arises through piggybacking off somebody else’s work.

Tolkien candidly admitted that:

“… no one of us can really invent or ‘create’ in a void, we can only reconstruct and perhaps impress a personal pattern on ‘ancestral’ material …”.

– Tolkien Letter to L.M. Cutts, 26th October 1958   (Tolkien’s emphasis)

Hmm … “ ‘ancestral’ material” – eh? That’s a pretty wide ranging sector. Albeit for an Englishman, and a philologist no less, one might reasonably narrow the range. Saying that, it certainly wouldn’t be too presumptuous to assume “ ‘ancestral’ material” encompassed historical English literature!

So as I have suggested in this thread, the seed from which The Hobbit tale sprouted, and indeed Tolkien’s acquisition of the name ‘Bilbo’ – came from bandying about in his head a possible fairy tale extraction. One which could be disseminated from Thomas Dekker’s play: Match me in London. And one that could be construed as ‘fair use’ of another’s work, because of its tangential employment. For once excised, the idea was to manipulate basic threads of the plot into a kind of parody. This would be a way of Tolkien impressing his own personal stamp on ‘ancestral material’. Can we honestly say that’s an impossibility? Does such a form of subcreation really sound so unreasonable?


… to be continued

New Soul
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Hi Priya, aww it is good to know then you believe so. :smooch: Inventive parody... the combination of words implies that the parody invents itself.. :lol: *reads* Hobbits as human offshoot somewhere down the historical ladder of human evolution.

"For once exercised, the idea was to manipulate basic threads of the plot into a kind of parody. This would be a way of Tolkien impressing his own personal stamp on ‘ancestral material’. Can we honestly say that’s an impossibility? Does such a form of subcreation really sound so unreasonable?" - Quote from post above.

I feel it is a likely probability that Tolkien carved his own stamp on this ancestral material. Such (sub)creation is not unreasonable. The human mind can invent almost anything, how strange or odd it might be. :smile:
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Hello Aiks


‘Inventive parody’ yes that is a bit of a hyperbolic onomatopoeia of an oxymoron !!! :rofl:



… continued from my previous post

So, given all the numerous tangencies from Match me in London that crop up in The Hobbit, the fire of parody reaches a ‘roaring’ crescendo. It’s hard not to believe Tolkien began The Hobbit with subtle parodying intent. Certainly he admitted:

“Mr Baggins began as a comic tale …”.

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #19 – 16 December 1937, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

While even his children parodied two of the main characters of The Hobbit well before the book was published and perhaps when it was only partly written down. Michael Tolkien recollects in early readings parodied names such as:

“… Scandalf the wizard and Throw-in the head dwarf …”.

– The History of The Hobbit, Chronology of Composition, J. Rateliff, 2007

Professor Tolkien definitely possessed a humorous side – and now perhaps his most intimate secrets are being revealed. In comparing Match me in London against The Hobbit it would be too much to expect everything to line-up: scene for scene or character to character. Because indeed there is much latitude available with this kind of literary technique. Nonetheless we must indeed conclude that Tolkien’s The Hobbit is not entirely unique. Yes, it is utterly flabbergasting that another work exists where a character called Bilbo not only talks of a fire-breathing dragon, but also of an article to be worn that causes invisibility. And to boot, we have a face-to-face adversarial contest of wits and a cry very much akin to the immortal one screamed by Gollum in accusing Baggins of being a ‘thief’. These major threads dominating our particular tale – absolutely cannot have been accidental happenings or sheer coincidence. That would defy all odds.

Then surely the seed* of Tolkien’s very special fairy tale lies in a Jacobean play. Surely at the very least – an initial skeleton plot came from the Jacobean drama**. For its hard to deny aspects of Dekker’s tragi-comedy***, as it is known, appear to be richly reflected in the tragic and comedic story of The Hobbit!


But I am not finished yet. I have tantalizingly dangled a carrot … it’s time to investigate hobbit holes and hills. And Tolkien’s most famous invention, the name ‘Hobbit’ itself … but we must keep ‘parody’ in mind.

… to be continued



* Beyond, of course, the overarching idea of a quest:

“The Quest of the Dragon-gold, the main theme of the actual tale of The Hobbit, …”.

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #131 – late 1951, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981

** Nor can we discount Tolkien going back to Dekker’s play for inspiration – even after The Hobbit was first published.

For the sceptic, one might note a parallel situation where Christopher Tolkien commented on the name Kôr being used both for a city in Rider Haggard’s She and Valinor of the Mythology:

“There is no external evidence for this, but it can hardly be doubted. In this case it might be thought that since the African Kôr was a city built on the top of a great mountain standing in isolation the relationship was more than purely ‘phonetic’.”

– The Book of Lost Tales II, The History of Eriol or Ælfwine – pg. 329, 1984

One might conclude that Christopher ought to have been amenable to ‘Bilbo’ and the firedrake (as well as the many other plot similarities present) in Match me in London being ultimately the source of ‘Bilbo’ of The Hobbit.

*** Courtesy of Literary Devices.net:

“Tragicomedy is a literary device used in fictional works. It contains both tragedy and comedy. Mostly, the characters in tragicomedy are exaggerated, and sometimes there might be a happy ending after a series of unfortunate events.”

New Soul
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Hi Priya! Is it not quite often that a tale starts at first intended to be funny, but gradually changes in mood and transforms to something else? Certainly the Hobbit is not unique in the genre, of what children books are, but it is definite one of the better ones. To be read to the littles ones and the older kids can read it themselves. Tolkien is pretty strong with Hobbit, to write it both for children and adults, because neither categories get bored by reading. It might be very well that could be Jacobean inspirations hidden. But is it not worth considering, it was Tolkien own invented humour, pure by himself and without outside influences? Such as the trolls that are about to eat the Dwarves, but then creeps the sun over hills and they are crually eternalised into stone? I feel this thought does more credit to the worth of the Hobbit tale. :wink:
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Hello Aiks

But is it not worth considering, it was Tolkien own invented humour, pure by himself and without outside influences?

Certainly a very large part of The Hobbit is purely Tolkien’s personal invention. However, there most definitely are exterior literary influences - which, for me, make the tale all the more interesting. A greater sense of appreciation, in how he so marvelously stitched literary history together, is thus gained leaving me with more satisfaction than just the tale itself.



Wordplay - A Hobby Perhaps?


Given the strength of the evidence in comparing matters from The Hobbit against Match me in London – an avenue of investigation involving both parody and humor ought to remain open. Sensibly then, one should try and dig deeper and see if more can be understood about the foundations of Tolkien’s magnificent fairy-story. Perhaps we might glimpse Dasent’s ox swish his tail before being served as ‘soup’. Though the Professor would likely not approve – for us it is far too interesting a matter to drop; the ox had a personality before being led to the butcher, and it is the beast I would like to get to know better. In other words, the hero and this diminutive branch of the human race quite possibly had more associations to Renaissance England than all we have learned so far. And to that end – while I beg the Professor’s pardon – I’m going to try to peer back in time. Let’s attempt to reconstruct what Tolkien was mulling over in his head in the late 1920’s and early 1930’s.

In this case, I am hopeful that we can recover the ‘seed’. Because what Tolkien forgot is important:

“There is no resemblance between the ‘mustard-seed’ and the full-grown tree. … it began with a seed, but it is vain to try and dig it up, for it no longer exists, …”.

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #306 – after 25 August 1967, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981  (Tolkien’s emphasis)

He forgot that the tree itself produces seeds which itself gives us an idea what the original was like!

Some would still say that I’m embarking on a near impossible task fraught with all sorts of peril. ‘Of course it’s difficult, and hard to sell’, would be my response. I acknowledge it’s pushing the boundaries of acceptable scholarship. But that doesn’t mean one shouldn’t try. Our toolbox should heartily use the hammer of logic – even if involves driving nails of speculation into a wooden sign whose post requires orienting in the right direction through dexterous intuition. Indeed, we should relish the opportunity to sift the few clues in our possession and eke out what we can that makes sense. One never knows what might result. So with that mode of thinking it’s time to take another look at the Professor’s works while duly taking account of the English Renaissance era.

One of the first things worth looking into is Tolkien’s choice of the name ‘Sackville’ for Bilbo’s relations. It’s the most obvious name plucked from our world purposely chosen for The Hobbit. Tom Shippey in Author of the 20th Century examines its French connotations quite extensively, but I shall instead try to address what wasn’t resolved – and that is inquire on who Tolkien had in mind when he said:

“Sackville is an English name (of more aristocratic association than Baggins).”

– Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings, Names of Persons and Peoples, J.R.R. Tolkien

Fortunately, there aren’t too many notables possessing such a distinct surname so the task is far from arduous. Prominent historical personages include: Sir Richard Sackville, Sir Thomas Sackville, Sir William Sackville and Vita Sackville-West. Of the four, perhaps the most interesting to us would be Sir Thomas Sackville – because here we have another Elizabethan dramatist. The first Earl of Dorset and one-time chancellor of the University of Oxford owned Dover Castle (though residence was never taken up). At some point pre-1900 the castle’s moat was dredged and, remarkably from our viewpoint*, a ‘silver spoon’ was salvaged**!

As a playwright, Thomas Sackville co-authored The Tragedie of Gorboduc(1561) – so reminiscent (in lead character’s name) of The Lord of the Rings hobbit, Gorbadoc***.




Image

Play Pamphlet – ‘The Tragedie of Gorboduc’, Thomas Norton & Thomas Sackville, 1561




… to be continued




* In connecting to The Hobbit:

“Many of his silver spoons mysteriously disappeared and were never accounted for. Personally he suspected the Sackville-Bagginses.”

– The Hobbit, The Last Stage

** See: Photography, Volume 6, Tunbridge Wells Amateur, 1894.

*** Scholars have observed that ‘Gorbadoc’ was spelled ‘Gorboduc’ in predecessor manuscripts of The Lord of the Rings on several occasions. Tolkien with Professor Diarmuid Murphy in 1949 is known to have set an examination paper question:

“… Gorboduc as a stage play, …”.

– J.R.R. Tolkien Companion and Guide 2017 Edition, Chronology, 22 June – 5 July 1949, Addenda & Corrigenda, C. Scull & W. Hammond

New Soul
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Hello Priya: sorry, I had quite a busy week with a few days offline.
Certainly a very large part of The Hobbit is purely Tolkien’s personal invention. However, there most definitely are exterior literary influences - which, for me, make the tale all the more interesting. A greater sense of appreciation, in how he so marvelously stitched literary history together, is thus gained leaving me with more satisfaction than just the tale itself.


Aye, I see. :nod: I don't know if it would give me satisfaction in the way is with you. :shrug:

I am loosing you on the ox, but that is okay. Wordplay was never my strongest suit, not in Dutch or English. Sackville more aristocratic? Hmm, I associated it always with pocket fillers (zakkenvullers in Dutch), thieves/money grabbers, and Baggins with beggars. Those names of the play are Thomans Nortone and Thomas Sackuyle.

"The tragedie of Gorboduc, whereof three actes were wrytten by Thomas Nortone, and the two laste by Thomas Sackuyle. Sett forthe as the same was shewed before the Quenes most excellent Maiestie, in her highnes court of Whitehall, the. xviij. day of Ianuary, anno Domini. 1561. By the Gentlemen of thynner Temple in London."
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New Soul
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Hello Aiks

I am loosing you on the ox, but that is okay. Wordplay was never my strongest suit, not in Dutch or English.

Sorry, I should have explained a bit more. Tolkien took a quote from George W. Dasent which he used in his On Fairy-stories paper that scholars often point to. It’s a sort of analogy-based warning/recommendation to stay away from digging too deep into the roots of a fairy tale or purposefully dissecting it:

“We must be satisfied with the soup that is set before us, and not desire to see the bones of the ox, out of which it has been boiled.”

Those names of the play are Thomans Nortone and Thomas Sackuyle.
The Elizabethan letters/spelling differs from our modern-day English.




… continued from my previous post


Yes, other scholars have noted Tolkien’s use of ‘Gorboduc’ - so I am not the first to mention this. And I stake no claim. But what I will point out is that Thomas Sackville wrote a famous letter commending the translation, by one Sir Thomas Hoby, of a famous and widely distributed Italian Renaissance work in England – Baldassare Castiglione’s Il libro del cortegiano (The Book of the Courtier):

“… Whose passing skill, lo, Hobbie’s pen displaies.
To Britaine folk, a work of worthy praise.”

– prefixed to Sir Thomas Hoby’s translation of The Book of the Courtier

The Book of the Courtier was one of those rare publications that have, again, a picture of a fabled flying creature on its title page – evoking, for us, a match with Sackville’s Gorboduc and Dekker’s Match me in London play quartos. Moreover, Hoby’s translation* was staple curriculum material for the English Literature department at the University of Oxford.



Image


‘The Book of the Courtier’, Baldassare Castiglione, 1528





So given a rather sticky web, it is now an opportune time to highlight another extraordinary connection. Several historical figures from the Elizabethan era – who intriguingly have ‘Hob’ as part of their surname, also have links to ‘bits’ of The Hobbit.


…. to be continued


* See Remembering C.S. Lewis: Recollections of Those who Knew Him, The Tutor: A Portrait – pg. 127, 2005 by James T. Como.

New Soul
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Hi Priya: Ah yes, I see now. Indeed it is from that essay. And I think our today spelling ransacks how it was written and spoken then. Thomas Hoby lived in the same time and age as the writer of this play, Thomas Sackuyle. It would be a translation then from Italian into English/French.
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New Soul
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Hello Aiks
Ah yes, I see now. Indeed it is from that essay. And I think our today spelling ransacks how it was written and spoken then. Thomas Hoby lived in the same time and age as the writer of this play, Thomas Sackuyle. It would be a translation then from Italian into English/French.

:thumbs:



… continued from my previous post

So onto a collection of real Englishmen who might have influenced and firmed up Tolkien’s selection of ‘Hob’ for his word ‘Hobbit’:




---------------------------------------------------------------------------




(a) Sir Thomas Hoby (1530–1566)

Note how Hoby is spelled 'Hobbie' in Sackville's letter – just one letter away from 'Hobbit'. The well-traveled Hoby who toured France and Italy for four years kept a detailed diary of his adventure. The expedition was reputedly the most extensive one undertaken by an Englishman that century. His translation of The Book of the Courtier greatly influenced English etiquette in providing direction on how nobility and upper-class gentlemen should behave.

<<Echoes of the bourgeois* well-mannered Mr. Baggins and his distant travels – recorded in “his personal memoirs” per The Hobbit dust jacket blurb.>>


(b) Sir Thomas Posthumous Hoby (1566-1640)

The younger son of Sir Thomas Hoby. An extremely tiny man – he has been mentioned as the inspiration behind Shakespeare's Malvolio in Twelfth Night** – a play which has a scene of drunken merrymaking. Shakespeare supposedly satirically poked fun at Hoby, ridiculing him for issuing a legal complaint against overly boisterous neighbors who had entered his house uninvited, made themselves at home, eaten his food, drank his wine, and insulted him.

<<Echoes of diminutive Hobbits and the Unexpected Party at Bilbo's residence.>>


(c) Sir Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679)

A famous English political philosopher. Quoted upon his deathbed as ready to take his last voyage: “... a great leap in the dark”.

<<Echoes of Bilbo evading Gollum with:

“No great leap for a man, but a leap in the dark." 

- The Hobbit, Riddles in the Dark>>


(d) Thomas Hobson (1544-1631)

From whom the phrase 'Hobson's choice' is derived. Meaning there is only one on offer – and not really a choice at all.

<<Echo of Bilbo's choice of escape path under the Misty Mountains not really being a dilemma – because given the situation there really was no alternative:

“ 'Go back?' he thought. 'No good at all! Go sideways? Impossible! Go forward? Only thing to do! ...’ ”.

- The Hobbit, Riddles in the Dark>>




Image

Thomas Hobson, 1630




--------------------------------------------------------------------------




What the observant reader might also have noticed is that as well as the 'Hob' to these Renaissance era individuals, they are commonly linked by the forename 'Thomas'***. A coincidence or not? Maybe 'not'! For the root meaning of 'Thomas' is 'twin'****. And so one might speculate Tolkien put all these connected people together. To the point where the literature surrounding them would somehow be reflected as a 'literary twin' in his new English fairy tale (i.e. a 'twin' of Match me in London).


… to be continued


* Tolkien remarks on Bilbo's character reveal how he felt about Bilbo prior to his adventure:

“Bilbo ... had a good share of hobbit virtues: shrewd sense, generosity, patience and fortitude, and also a strong 'spark' yet unkindled. The story and its sequel are not about 'types' or the cure of bourgeois smugness by wider experience, but about the achievements of specially graced and gifted individuals.”

- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter #281 - 15 December 1965, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981   (Tolkien’s emphasis in quotes, my underlined emphasis)

** Malvolio is taken aback by the frivolity and drunken singing of Sir Toby, Sir Andrew, Feste and Maria. The line:

“SIR TOBY ... Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?”,

- Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene III, W. Shakespeare, c. 1601

is thought to satirize Posthumous Hoby's prayer interruption by the unwanted squatters. Incidentally "A niece of King Gorboduc" is mentioned briefly by the Fool in Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, thus providing a link back to the Sackville dynasty.

*** In addition to Thomas Dekker and Thomas Sackville!

**** Courtesy of Wikipedia:

“Thomas ... is ultimately derived from the Aramaic personal name meaning 'twin'.”

New Soul
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Hi Priya! The personal name Thomas must have been a very popular boy's name at the time to use. And callsigns are created upon the name is make distinction between the different wearers of this name. It is possible that Tolkien took inspiration of these famous men, but they all were used as you put in hypothesis together, I am not certain to agree with. I find it a bit too obvious to find truth in it. But certain elements could be. :thumbs:
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Hello Aiks
It is possible that Tolkien took inspiration of these famous men, but they all were used as you put in hypothesis together, I am not certain to agree with. I find it a bit too obvious to find truth in it. But certain elements could be.

There is an awful lot of earlyish stuff, I’ve put out pointing to satire and parody. From the three trolls in The Hobbit, to the ‘Troll Song’ in Songs for the Philologists to The Hobbit skeleton plot originating from Match me in London. And what’s quite remarkable is that the source is consistently Elizabethan/Jacobean literature. Even more intriguing is that my review/research into the word ‘hobbit’ also meshes in with both parody and those eras.

Too much of a coincidence for me. But I’m glad you are open to the idea.



… continued from my previous post

In inventing the word: ‘hobbit’, the plan might well have oriented around the contents possessing parodied elements, while the title (and thus the name of his newly invented race) would result from devious wordplay. Yes the 'Hob' part of these famous Elizabethan persons names would be appended with 'bits'. Comically, this would then reflect pieces of their works or history (i.e. “ 'ancestral' material”) foreseen to be incorporated into the tale. Hmm … perhaps that's how the name 'hobbit’' came to finally gel in Tolkien's mind while marking those examination papers!

So one might, not unreasonably, conclude that there's a good chance the Professor just simply constructed another 'low' philological and satirical jest. An extremely complex man and especially deep thinker, it seems that Tolkien had already a collection of thoughts consciously rattling about before that Eureka moment of: 'I have it'!

“... I invented the word hobbit, and can say no more about it than it seemed to me to fit the creatures that I had already in mind ...”.

- Tolkien letter to L.M. Cutts, 26 October 1958   (my underlined emphasis)

Of course 'Hobbit' is rooted in the word 'Hob': 

“ 'Hob' : A sprite, hobgoblin.”

- The English Dialect Dictionary*, Volume III, Item 3 - pg. 183, J. Wright, 1902

And of course Tolkien had this uppermost in his thoughts**. Though surely it must have crossed his mind that an all-important question would inevitably be raised – and likely - early on. As a philologist he ought to have a philological answer ready. Upon The Hobbit's 1937 release, even one of his colleagues at the University of Leeds wanted him to:

“... speak learnedly of hobbits, and say whether they derived their name from 'hobs' or 'rabbits'.”

- The Annotated Hobbit, Introduction (quote by G.H. Cowling) - pgs. 18-19, D. Anderson, 2002

But Tolkien never gave a philological reply – at least not one in that time frame. Instead much later in The Return of the King appendices he provided what appears to be a remarkable feat of reverse engineering. The word 'hobbit' supposedly had its source in 'holbytla' - described to mean 'hole-builder'.

But we should not be confused or distracted. For once again, when critically examined, the information is ‘internal’ to the tale. Thus the search for an ‘external’ source has simmered away in the background***. And adding to the list of possibilities is my own.

Tolkien's late statement: 

“Hobbit  This, I confess, is my own invention; but not one devised at random.”

- The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix on Languages - pg. 49, 1996

is entirely believable. However I believe the real non-random reason behind settling on 'hobbit' had hardly anything to do with 'rabbit' or the word 'holbytla'. Instead it had an awful lot to do with parodying famous Elizabethans and jesting wordplay. Yes indeed:

“Oh what a tangled web they weave who try a new word to conceive!”

- The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #319 - 8 January 1971, Edited by H. Carpenter, 1981



* Tolkien might well have turned to Joseph Wright's dictionary to understand the full usage of 'Hob' across England. Indeed, the entry occupies nearly two pages.

** That's not to say that Tolkien didn't have other thoughts in his mind that felt apt and he found appealing when it came to 'Hobbit':

“It might have been associated with Sinclair Lewis’s Babbitt. Certainly not rabbit, as some people think. Babbitt has the same bourgeois smugness that hobbits do. His world is the same limited place.”

- Interview with C. and D. Plimmer, 1968

“... I must admit that its faint suggestion of rabbit appealed to me.”

- The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Appendix on Languages - pg. 49, 1996   (Tolkien’s italicized emphasis on ‘rabbit’)

*** For example see: Mythlore, Volume 30, Number 3, Issue 11 7/118, Spring 2012 - The Myths of the Author: Tolkien and the Medieval Origins of the Word Hobbit, Michael Livingston

New Soul
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Hello Priya: Sure. :winkkiss: I don't think Tolkien was not an extremely complex man and especially deep thinker, but that our touch with the world of 1900 - 1945 is transported to the history books and our personal understanding dwindles of that time. All people around me born in that time, including my parents, don't live anymore. So there are no personal accounts to how it was. I have only the memories as they were once told. He appears to us as so as you say, but 1900 - 1945 was the end of Victoria time, period of Edwardian time, the European War of '14 - '18. Great Depression and The World War. It is pretty tumultunous to live through it all.

The word Hobbit can surely be an infliction of the mind and not being sourced from somewhere else. Holbytla is indeed a bit of history written in the later stages of the Lotr books. Tolkien allows the teller to say itself and explain about holbytla, when presented a question. All of the Bobbit race history is scattered in the books, but that is the charm of it, as reader you don't want it summerised in the beginning, it is more exciting to read when the character discuss their histories among each other. :nod:
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Mahal
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Hi Priya! I enjoy your posts very much. :thumbs:
I was doing some searching online and came across this Etymology which led me to Internet Archive. I would say the word hobbit was already invented, right?
Tolkien does justify himself in letter 319 From a letter to Roger Lancelyn Green 8 January 1971.
I have had, therefore, to justify my claim to have invented the word. My claim rests really on my 'nude parole' or unsupported assertion that I remember the occasion of its invention (by me); and that I had not then any knowledge of Hobberdy, Hobbaty, Hobberdy Dick etc. (for 'house-sprites');* and that my 'hobbits' were in any case of wholly dissimilar sort, a diminutive branch of the human race.
The world was fair in Durin's Day.

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