What are you reading?

[Silky Gooseness]

Never read Sailing to Sarantium. I did read Tigana, and Under Heaven. They were fine, and I enjoyed them, but they’re not my favourite historical fantasies. (I haven’t quite decided what is.)

Where Silmarillion differs for me substantially to LotR, and why people find it a harder read, I think, is the narrative has “omniscient distance”, whilst LotR narration tends to sit on the shoulder of the smallest characters: primarily the Hobbits, although it moves to Gimli in the Paths of the Dead, for example; also, a fox that one time

[VelvetineZone]

Yes, @Silky Gooseness! So true. I remember feeling really deeply immersed in place as the hobbits set off from The Shire.
It's also the formality of the writing tone and words in The Silmarillion, it makes it harder to read.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Where Silmarillion differs for me substantially to LotR, and why people find it a harder read, I think, is the narrative has “omniscient distance”, whilst LotR narration tends to sit on the shoulder of the smallest characters: primarily the Hobbits, although it moves to Gimli in the Paths of the Dead, for example; also, a fox that one time

That is nicely put. I think of LotR as a Hobbits' holiday adventure write-up, and the Red Book is supposed to be composed by them. That is what got me to Elvish postcards. Sam gets to see Elves close up, and what we see of Rivendell and Lorien is what Frodo and Sam see. So what poscards of each would Sam select to send back to the Gaffer and the folks at The Green Dragon? Your way of putting it as narrative voice is helpful and prompted me to think of exceptions to the rule, or at least moments that just this narrative frame is used to a different end. I'm not sure I am using your terms properly, though.

Withywhindle Valley to House of Bombadil. While individual Hobbits are singled out, Sam in not falling for the song of the Tree, Frodo in running into Tom Bombadil, and their dreams are distinguished, the Hobbits in this part of the adventure seem as one subject. The Hobbits are caught by the Tree, caught by Bombadil's words, caught by the Barrow-wight.

Frodo and Galadriel at the Mirror. This is a case of us seeing the heart of Elvenhome on Middle-earth through the eyes of a Hobbit, and so reads as an instance of your rule. But the keen eye of this Hobbit is contrasted with that of Sam at the end, and the scene is actually serving to elevate Frodo's vision to mythical status.

Frodo and Sam on the walk within Mordor to Mount Doom. We see through the eyes of Sam, so this is the same narrative perspective, but on this last leg of the quest we see two enobled Hobbits, small but grown very great. Sam approaches Beren status. On all this journey of Sam and Frodo with Gollum we approach the point of view of the smallest of moral stature, the meanest, but though a third Hobbit we do not (I think) get more than a glimpse of Gollum's point of view at any moment.

What do you'all reckon?

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Never read Sailing to Sarantium. I did read Tigana, and Under Heaven. They were fine, and I enjoyed them, but they’re not my favourite historical fantasies. (I haven’t quite decided what is.)

Historical fantasy is not a category genre I ever used in my head before. While I still cannot recall the contents of Sailing to Sarantium the name is certainly correct. The book was conceived and written as, and received as, 'historical fantasy'.

But the very idea of 'historical fantasy' gives me pause. Historical fiction is engagement with primary sources. My gut feeling is that historical fantasy is but one mode of historical fiction.

[VelvetineZone]

Acknowledging reading of your comments but can't construct any clear thoughts on narrative forms this morning, as school term is finally ended for the holidays and I'm shattered, been a busy term with lots of illness.

Actually I am now musing again on narrative form. Because it really does lead you into a story so much more immersively when you're not at an omniescient distance. And you're both generally making me muse that I've never really dwelled on the fact that LOTR comes to you from the hobbity perspective, I just take that for granted I guess, here we are in the Shire and off we go. But it's an interesting one, as what a different book it would be from the perspective of men, elves, dwarves or wizards. Especially as its not just the hobbit perspective of middle-earth and those they meet en route which compells, but also the whole classic leaving the Shire and setting out. It's a metaphor I use in real life if I head beyond my usual area, and I'm sure many others do.

This matter of leading in with a narrator and where you start and with whom is very interesting. In an unfinished novel I began the first rereading of recently (I have various bits of writing on the go), the main character leaves a place and a circumstance, and heads off to an unplanned, unknown location, and again, it's very much part of the narrative that you're accompanying the main character on this journey and then experiencing the new setting along with her.

Silky Gooseness is a great name, makes me think of goose fairy tales.

[VelvetineZone]

And yes, I see your point about Elvish postcards, dragon. I could see Sam sending a bunch from the meeting with elves in the woods. Although that's photos. OK, maybe just postcards of the woods, and a tale on the back.

I'm talking to a dragon and a goose!

[VelvetineZone]

I wandered off and read a few threads on different perspectives in LOTR e.g. the Faramir / Eowyn bit.

[Silky Gooseness]

There are certainly different perspectives! Even LotR, being as it is third person, you are seated only on the characters’ shoulders: not behind their eyes; and so whilst you are informed of some of their thoughts and feelings, it is not as immediate and in depth as a first person narration might be.

The distance kept by the Silmarillion gives it a bit more of what I think of as “historical weight”. Narration is presented as objective fact, not influenced by subjective opinion, although the feelings and motivations of characters are occasionally explained to us.

I had not thought about it from the point of view of “size nobility”, Chrys, but this is another interesting point: the easiest way for an author to explain things to their readers is to ensure the narration is tied to a person who doesn’t know everything. Thus, as things are explained to them, they are by extension explained to the reader. This allows the author to avoid fact-heavy info-dumping which can bring the reader out of the world. So you follow, instead, the humbler Perceval type character rather than Merlin, and grow to know things with them.

With postcards as well you can certainly imagine Sam, for example, focusing on what’s important to him personally: the gardening techniques of the great and good, perhaps, rather than discussions in their halls

[VelvetineZone]

I read some more Silmarillion yesterday. It's definitely expanding my understanding and knowledge of this fictional world, but sometimes in a disconcerting way, e.g.

1. Elves attacking other elves! This was a shock. Not something I expected from elves. Very bad Fearon.

2. Luthien and Beren. I've known and loved the tale of dancing Tinuviel for years. (Can't be bothered to add accents on names this morning sorry). I'm a bit disconcerted somehow by her having parents, I'm used to her just dancing in a forest. Plus I reckon Thingol is possibly my least favourite of Tolkien's names. Sounds like they had a nice palace though.

I enjoyed the sun and moon chapter. It's novel to make them be invented later from fragments of light from the silver and gold trees, instead of being there from the start, I like the originality of that. Although I expect one of you will tell me of a similar creation myth now. I should look it up. I loved this concept of looking up in wonder as the moon first appears.

Just about to begin a chapter called Of Men, so no spoilers please. Should be called Of Humans though.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

You are suddenly deep into the 'Quenta Silmarillion', stories about the Elves proper, after the long preludes of God and the gods.

When they caught his words again they found that he had now wandered into strange regions beyond their memory and beyond their waking thought, into times when the world was wider, and the seas flowed straight to the western Shore; and still on and back Tom went singing out into ancient starlight, when only the Elf-sires were awake. Then suddenly he stopped, and they saw that he nodded as if he was falling asleep.

'In the House of Tom Bombadil', Fellowship of the Ring

[VelvetineZone]

Love that quote.

And this section is definitely more readable and compelling.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Well, I finished the Sigfrid and Brunhilda story. I think it is called 'The Wolf and the Raven' and is by Diana Paxson. It was very decent to the end. Prior to the end, half the book is the story of Sigfrid and the other half that of Brunhilda. The very last part they meet, spend the winter together in a hut in the middle of the woods, and discover sex. I felt a bit cheated on this last bit. Being a Tolkien fanatic, I like my sex sublimated with lust for magical objects rather than human bodies. The writing here was actually similar to Tolkien in certain ways because the author was telling the sex from Brunhilda's point of view and flowering it up with lots of semi-religious (pagan) metaphors. Also sword metaphors, of course (lots of sheathing of Sigfrid's sword going on).

Looking for something without Odin's orgasms I've now purchased The King’s Corpse, which is set in 10th century Anglo-Saxon England. Here is the blurb.

Our disreputable hero following his grubby profession leads us on a merry chase around the English and Welsh countryside. His name’s Tryff, he comes from Wales, and he steals saints for a living. Used to, anyhow. But everybody in England’s got to have a lord, so Tryff’s become radman, mounted protection (and general dogs-body) for the abbess of a little country convent. She sends him to find the missing body of her cousin Edward, the probably murdered king of England.

[VelvetineZone]

Giggling now.
Enjoy the 10th century.
I'm still flicking between The Silmarillion, editing my own story, and mindlessly scrolling online.

[Chrysophylax Dives]

Hi @VelvetineZone,
The Welsh relic-stealing book is quite fun so far. Well, it has made me laugh out loud. But for the sake of your giggles, I will give you a quote or two from the Sigfrid and Brunhilda book.

Sigfrid moved a little, and her hand brushed his manhood; she recoiled, then reached out again, fearing no longer to wake the god. He stilled, trembling.

All Brunahild’s awareness was focusing into a single, glowing core. “Fill me,” she whispered, and shifted position to guide him. “Be my center.” She was melting; she felt body and spirit surround him as he sheathed himself within her flesh once more. What god invented this? she wondered dazedly. Was it Wodan, or did Froja teach him this magic?

[VelvetineZone]

Ha ha. I read a fair bit of romance for escapism so some of these have some saucy bits, occasionally dreadfully enough written that I abandon the book, but nothing quite like those quotes. Glowing core! Hilarious.

I can go back to the Silmarillion safely knowing that Tolkien will not feature any sheathing descriptions.

Very slow progress last night reading a chapter describing the various areas of Beleriand as I kept stopping to consult maps, and then got interested in what remains of this area in the Third Age, and submerged lands in reality and fiction, and then in looking to see if the remaining land was where the Hobbits left from to sail West which of course it was.

[Pele Alarion]

Finished reading "Invitation to Solitude and Silence", and now attempting to practice some things I learned.

[Drífa]

While I was on vacation, I read Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir, the same guy who wrote The Martian. Absolutely excellent book, couldn't put it down!

I am not a good reviewer, as I only tend to say like or dislike.

@Reikon Suchi-ru I listened to Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir and totally enjoyed it, even with all the scientific and mathematical jargon; the narrator, Ray Porter, did a fantastic job and made it quite entertaining. Rocky!

This might be interesting.

Project Hail Mary

[Drífa]

I am listening to Magician by Raymond E. Feist, the first book in The Riftwar Saga. I read the series a long, long time ago and enjoyed it.

Having become a fan of audiobooks in the last few years, I do find it amusing how some narrators use a kind of Gaelic accent when reading and imitating a dwarf's speech. One would think they would use a deep, gravelly pitch for enunciation, as the dwarves usually work deep in the mountains and must not disturb the foundations. But no, the narrators seem to use a high, lilting voice for the good old dwarf. In the above audiobook, the author uses the word "laddie" frequently. Perhaps this is why.

[Pele Alarion]

I'm reading a book by the Latvian author Regīna Ezera. Over half read but I still can't decide if I like that book.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

I am reading Last of the Mohicans by J. Fenimore Cooper from 1826. It is quite different from the movie that was made about it, more slow and detailed. As with those books from those days and age, there are lot of descriptions and make it very imaginable.

[Silky Gooseness]

I’m reading The Sovereign by C L Clark - the final instalment of a sapphic political fantasy, where hard decisions about warfare, alliances, marriages and treaties are made harder by the personal relationships and feelings involved. Great stuff

[Drífa]

I have never read Last of the Mohicans, although I have seen the movie. I may have to give it a listen after I finish the Raymond E. Feist books I have stumbled across on YouTube. I have jumped from the Riftwar Saga to The World On The Other Side Books. Very enjoyable.

[Pele Alarion]

Reading Thomas Mann's "Joseph and His Brothers". In Latvian. That doesn't help though: even if it is supposed a German classic I think it is horribly boring. But I'm trying to get through that book either way; currently somewhere in the middle.

[Drífa]

I am going to listen to Magic Mountain, by Thomas Mann and see if I can listen to something longer, like Joseph and His Brothers by the author.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

I have finally finished the book on the Mohicans. I moved on to a romantic novel of Eloisa James: Echanting pleasures. It is quite good so far.

[Pele Alarion]

Fiiiiiinally finished that Joseph book. Exceedingly boring with all that philosophical blah-blah spoiling a good story. Don't think I'll ready any other of Mann's books. Also read a small book for young people by a Lithuanian author to remind myself of childhood.

[Esme]

oh my, you´re all reading the "heavy stuff" where is the fun in that?
I am reading Monty Don, "My Garden World", and Shelley Rhodes "Sketchbook Explorations"....on and off, when I get the time

[Merewyn]

I definitely understand the on and off reading. It's hard to get reading in sometimes with how long my work days are and other commitments.

I'm currently reading the first Redwall book, as well as a few of Tolkien's translated scholarly works.

[Aikári Salmarinian]

I did read a few books of Tad Williams, but they were not much of a success, and I didn't finish them. So I am out of books for the moment. Instead I embroider at the moment.

[Pele Alarion]

I'm setting about reading "Discipleship of the Mind". Not an easy reading either...

[Drífa]

That looks like a hard read. Is the author James W Sire?

I am listening to the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown. It is keeping my mind occupied at work. And, I am enjoying it.

[Pele Alarion]

Yup, Drifa, it is James W Sire. I actually find this easier to read than Mann's book.