Minas Tirith City Hall (OOC)

[Drífa]

Welcome to the Plaza, @Vardarianna!

These are the only two other sources I found that provided information regarding Eldarion. There are excerpts in The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion by Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull, but they are pretty similar to what one can find in HoME VII, so I did not quote them here.

A Guide To Middle by Robert Foster - Ballantine Books, August 1974.
ELDARION (Q.: 'of the Eldar') (b. FA 1st Cent.) Dunadan, second King of the Reunited Kingdom (FA 120-?). He was the only son of Elessar and Arwen. (III 427)

Parma Endorion Essays On Middle-earth Revised Edition by Michael L. Martinez
c.FO 220 (AYS -- Absolute Years of the Sun)7272 Death of Eldarion, son of Aragorn and Arwen.

[Vardarianna]

Thanks for the welcome Drifta, and the references.

I would like to state that at the time of my creation of Varadrianna and started writing my fan-fic ten years ago, there was no stated birth year or order of birth of Aragorn and Arwen's children.


Since citations were lacking, I did some legwork in the 'year 1' issue. From what I could find, it seems the only citation where Tolkien mentions Eldarion being born in year 1 of the 4th age is published in Nature of Middle Earth which came out in 2021. I got the book around then but only read parts of it.

From Tolkien Gateway wiki: In the twelfth note to a text written around 1959 and published in The Nature of Middle-earth, it is said that either the slow maturity of the Half-elven, or the "choice of kindred"[4]:78 extended to the third generation, suggesting that Eldarion, and Tar-Amandil, were among the Half-elven.[4]:82 However, this was changed to the second generation in the actual text.[4]:78 In the same text, Tolkien wrote that Eldarion had lived until the age of 125, most likely having passed away in Fo.A. 126.[4]:79
Footnote 4 - J.R.R. Tolkien, Carl F. Hostetter (ed.), The Nature of Middle-earth, "Part One. Time and Ageing: XI. Ageing of Elves"

In reading the aformentioned footnote, the mention of Eldarion being born in year 1 was at the end if a detailed mathematical explanation of ageing of the Elven. in the parts about the half-Elven, It got to Arwen where it says her ageing changes from elven to mortal with the birth of Eldarion in year 1:

In (3A) 3019 at the wedding she (Arwen) was nearly 37 [life-years] (but Aragorn 43). She then acquired the lifespan of her husband after the birth of Eldarion in 4A 1. In 4A 100 therefore she was 33 [Numenorean life] years older or 73.

The aforementioned is where the Eldarion year 1 birth is stated. The text goes on from there discussing Eldarion's life:

Eldarion was mortal and was not by promise included in the "grace of Earendil", but he had in fact a long youth; which took the form of remaining like a young man from maturity at 20 until 60 without change. He then lived another 65 years; making him 125, but in life-age 20 = 65 = 85. His descendants became normal, but long-lived (80-90).

The discussion on Eldarion's birth year now moves on to what is considered 'canon' in Tolkien's work.

There was no further mention of the two or more daughters Aragorn and Arwen had, but if we are to take this NoME bit as 'canon', then the (2 or more) daughters of Aragorn and Arwen would have aged similarly as Eldarion (remained 20 year old and start to show ageing at age 60), and Eldarion, having been born in year 1 of the 4th age; lived to be 125; and ascended to the throne upon King Aragorn's death in 120 of the 4th age when Aragorn tells Arwen in Appendix A - Tale of Aragorn and Arwen:

"And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship".

So according to that part from NoME, he was 119 when Aragorn lays down his life, and Eldarion dies at 125 in 126 of the 4th Age; having ruled for 6 years. It would be one of the shortest reigns of a king.


With all that said, I do not plan on roleplaying my character here. I can remove my character from the Gondor Character submissions page if requested.

[Rillewen]

Hi again :)
Well, it looks like you've done even more research than I have about this, and everything referenced here seems to confirm the FA 1 birth of Eldarion. But since you now reveal that you aren't even planning to RP with anyone here, then I suppose the whole thing is a moot point anyway. :) I only thought that you planned to write with others here, which meant the timeline would complicate things since we're way earlier in the FA than you are.

Anyway, enjoy your fanfic writing! And again, welcome to the plaza :D

[Vardarianna]

- You may wish to solo roleplay, writing just as yourself and any NPCs or non-player characters - that’s additional characters that you write to interact with your main character. You’re free to make your own stories and settings, and check with thread runners where you’re exploring someone else’s setting!

After this in-depth discussion, and having discussions in private with some folk here; I've decided I will participate here. It will likely be more of what I quoted, though I am planning on a 1x1 collaborative story with another member. It won't be set in the early 4th age time-frame which I am assuming is the 'official' time frame of the site. Thanks for the help and guidance @Silky Gooseness!

[Silky Gooseness]

We will be glad to see your work @Vardarianna! We enjoy seeing all kinds of writing here: ones that adhere more closely to the texts, and writing that expands on that in a more creative way - it’s sometimes just helpful, as @Rillewen and @Drífa were seeking to do, to explain the context of existing settings so that interactions with other people are more fluid (if that’s what you want to do - as I mentioned earlier as well, lots of people like to go solo and explore their own stories with complete creative freedom)!

We really do hope you feel welcome and I look forward to seeing your writing.

[Vardarianna]

We will be glad to see your work @Vardarianna! We enjoy seeing all kinds of writing here: ones that adhere more closely to the texts, and writing that expands on that in a more creative way - it’s sometimes just helpful, as Rillewen and Drífa were seeking to do, to explain the context of existing settings so that interactions with other people are more fluid (if that’s what you want to do - as I mentioned earlier as well, lots of people like to go solo and explore their own stories with complete creative freedom)!

We really do hope you feel welcome and I look forward to seeing your writing.

Thanks again @Silky Gooseness. I do feel welcome. I've been reading the Michael Martinez essays that @Drifta pointed me to. I read some of his stuff before but lost the link at some point.

I will be sharing my fanfics likely in parts. I see a lot of '(private') marked posts in various setting threads that are solo posts with many having different timelines. Or if it is a 1x1, then it is marked '(private with 'name')'. It will likely be what I do.

[Eldrith]

Well.. *coughs and blows the dust of this figure* Let's see if I can find some of the old magic..

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Hi Eldrith, good to see you again! I remember you vividly from the older days. How have you been? And there is enough magic found around, no worries there.

[Eldrith]

Aikári Salmarinian
I am hoping being vividly remembered is a good thing! Though it's a strange thought that I started here over 20 years ago!!

[Aikári Salmarinian]

Eldrith: I can imagine it is a strange thought, the time is a generation to grow up in full. I was twentyeight when I got as newbie. Now I am middleaged at 50 years. I feel a bit like at the oldies of those times. I was always active on the old forum and made it eventually in 2018 to about 22.000 points when the site was hacked and went offline for good. There is a between site run by Rivvy who bridged this place to this point. I have a blog in the Gondolin forum, but for the moment I am not posting in it anymore.

[Pele Alarion]

@Eamila Bolger Bringing what you OOC asked in HoH here. If @ doesn't give you the option to tag, perhaps coding the tag would work, like this: @username. See if that helps any if @ is glitchy for some reason or other.

[Eamila Bolger]

Thanks! I have tried using the mention code earlier, but then I'd get a code telling me I couldn't do that either.
But it seems to work for you, so I can't see what code you are using in your post above, haha.
Could you perhaps type out the code with spaces so I can see what it is? Hopefully that helps!

[Drífa]

@ Eamila Bolger -Place the word mention in between brackets [ ] and, in between closed brackets [/], insert the name in between the two mentions.

Sometimes the @ is a bit mischievous. What I do is delete the mention attempt and try again.

[Pele Alarion]

Ha... I somehow thought it wouldn't tag 'username' without anyone behind it, but I guess code still works. But do as Drifa says.

[Drífa]

Yeah, I forgot about spaces!!
[ mention ] name [/ mention ]

[Eamila Bolger]

Ah, I get this message: You cannot use certain BBCodes: [ mention ]... how do I change that? (Actually I get that message without the spaces but if I leave the spaces out I keep having that message and cannot post).
Sorry... my kids say I am a boomer...

[Ercassie]

@Eamila Bolger do you have BB codes enabled in your profile ?

If you click on Control panel, then choose 'Board preferences' from the tabs along the top, then choose 'edit posting defaults' from the list on the left hand side. Then click on the 'Yes' box where it says 'Enable BB code by default'.

Not sure if that will solve the problem, but may be worth checking.

[Drífa]

In the Options below the posting box, there is a Disable BBCode option. Make sure that you have not checked it.

[Drífa]

Simultaneous post, @Ercassie.

[Ercassie]

I was poking around in profile just the other day looking for Imgur solutions. Or I would have been none the wiser.

[Eamila Bolger]

Actually, I have checked that already, and that is not the case. I can do other things like coloring this word.
Eldrith however came with a smart thought: she has the same trouble since a few days. Could it be because of the the tribute rank we both have?

[Eamila Bolger]

Oh lol, the word 'checked' means two different things in this case... I have 'checked' that I have NOT checked that box, haha. Also checked my profile posting defaults.

[Drífa]

Eldrith however came with a smart thought: she has the same trouble since a few days. Could it be because of the the tribute rank we both have?

I am not sure, @Eamila Bolger, what the problem might be. If you and @Eldrith have the same problem, maybe something did go wrong with the icons, strangely. I will look into it and get back to you. Thanks!

[Narv]

Hi @Eamila Bolger and @Eldrith, I think this ought to be fixed now, can you give mentioning a whirl and let me know?

[Eldrith]

@Narv Whatever you did seems to have done the trick for me! Thank you!

I had noticed it a day or two ago, and I know I've used them previously, but I didn't think twice about it until @Eamila Bolger mentioned having the same problem!

[Eamila Bolger]

Hurray, thank you @Narv! It's working again!

[Karis Ziranphel]

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone! I am ever thankful for each of you.
This group has become part of my chosen extended family over the years.

[Rillewen]

Hope you have a great thanksgiving too!

[Pele Alarion]

Ah, you say 'great' about Thanksgiving? Have a great Thanksgiving then!
No such thing in Latvia, but I am thankful for you, folks, because you are great people.

[Eamila Bolger]

I couldn't agree less, Pele! Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate!

[Rillewen]

@Eamila Bolger , just so you are aware, there is an already established character who runs the laundry for the rangers, an absolutely terrible person named Ms Irma, although her writer has been absent for a while. You could either assume that laera works for her(miserable job) or maybe that she's already been arrested for her crimes and there's new management.
@Winddancer would probably be the best person to ask about Irma's situation

[Eamila Bolger]

@Rillewen Ah, that is good to know! In that case it would very much make sense to me to have her work for this Ms Irma.
@Winddancer just let me know if I should change that, or if it doesn't fit in whatever storyline that I wasn't aware of!

[Esme]

now for something completely different:
if Esme wanted to buy a house in Minas Tirith, who would be in charge of such realtor things? no way she will become a squatter.

[Merewyn]

I am also curious about that, as I have a number of Gondorian characters I started a few years back and might want to hop back into, but most of them went recent additions to Minas Tirith and traveled there from other parts of Gondor.

[Rillewen]

@Esme and @Merewyn

None of the active Gondor writers really have any realtor characters. I had a rich character recently who sent servants ahead of her to purchase the house she would be living in, in Minas Tirith, but I didn't actually write that out. She just said, after the fact, that she'd bought it.
you could NPC a realtor if you want to go through that process, or you could just write in your entry post about having bought the house, after the fact, or however works for your story :)

[Esme]

ah, ok, good to know, thank you. I have been checking the Gondorian marketplace for any mention of houses-sellers or buyers.
so I will just jump right in if I've figured out, what I actually want.