We deal with the aftermath of the last episode… what will everyone choose to do?
The Numenoreans are in disarray but we know they’ll not leave Middle-earth forever. The super volcano has created an ash cloud which may allow the orcs to walk by day…
The Rings Of Power Episode 7: The Eye [SPOILERS]
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cave anserem
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The words the Stranger uses to revive the trees are certainly in Elvish, by the way - he clearly says Envinyatar, Renewer? And I think I heard Coivie - life - as well.
cave anserem
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I watched this two nights ago, but it took a while to think of much to say about it. It's ... it's fine, but I'm not invested enough in these characters to care much about a quieter, more introspective episode like this one. Which is a shame, because normally I love to see this kind of episode in an adventure series. Part of the issue is the show's inefficient use of time. This episode was 1 hour and 12 minutes long, including credits, which is a full 20 minutes longer than a typical early-season Game of Thrones episode, but very little of consequence happened. I'm not inherently opposed to slow pacing, but a slower paced work still needs to remain interesting and engaging on a scene by scene basis, and ROP just doesn't do that for me.
The Harfoot storyline is the worst offender here. It boggles the mind that they waited until the end of the penultimate episode of the first season—nearly 20% of the way through the show's entire runtime, if they stick to the five-season master plan they claim to have—to finally get the more adventure-inclined Harfoots to stop "refusing the call," as the Campbellians would put it. We've already spent the whole season with the Harfoots yo-yoing back and forth between liking the Stranger or not, mostly based on what he's done in the last five minutes. Then, in this episode alone, we get no fewer than six shifts back and forth:
The combined Númenor and Southlands subplots at least had events of consequence happen in episode 6, but I'm not a fan of how dirty they've done Galadriel. After her one shining moment of taking down a troll in the premiere, she's spent most of the rest of the season failing horribly at things. Her few remaining followers mutinied against her, she was effectively banished from her home kingdom, she pulled what should by all rights have been a suicidal stunt by jumping off the ship with no plan, she nearly got eaten by a sea monster, she would've died of exposure or thirst except for being saved by Elendil, she blundered around in Númenor and failed to make any headway in winning support for her cause until Halbrand explained extremely basically principles of interpersonal behavior to her, but in the end the Númenórean expeditionary force was only created because of Míriel's inexplicable decision to stake her credibility on Galadriel's claims without bothering to confirm that Halbrand wanted to be king. (If Míriel had talked to Halbrand directly, Galadriel's eleventh hour appeals wouldn't have mattered.) Once in Middle-earth, Galadriel participated in a successful battle—up until Adar's Orodruin gambit turned it into a defeat—but is still being presented as an emotionally broken husk who threatens to commit genocide because she can't conceive of herself living a life of peace.
If it turns out that she has in fact spent most of the season becoming friends (and building romantic tension) with her disguised arch-nemesis, I can't even say that would be out of character for show!Galadriel, since she's pretty much the opposite of wise, insightful, or difficult to fool. I hope this complaint doesn't come across the wrong way, because I don't want to be a grumpy purist about this and I think there are plenty of possibilities of canon-divergent characterizations for Galadriel that would've worked on their own merits. I don't think the showrunners were wrong to want her to serve as a flawed and relatable protagonist for ROP, but there is a wide spectrum of relatable flaws, with incompetent, entitled petulance being merely one extreme. I think it's unfortunate they went with it. And don't get me started on them introducing yet another mystery box with the ~mysterious~ fate of Celeborn when they still haven't revealed any of the identities of characters they've kept the audience guessing about. Sometimes, the showrunners' status as former JJ Abrams mentees is painfully obvious.
The Harfoot storyline is the worst offender here. It boggles the mind that they waited until the end of the penultimate episode of the first season—nearly 20% of the way through the show's entire runtime, if they stick to the five-season master plan they claim to have—to finally get the more adventure-inclined Harfoots to stop "refusing the call," as the Campbellians would put it. We've already spent the whole season with the Harfoots yo-yoing back and forth between liking the Stranger or not, mostly based on what he's done in the last five minutes. Then, in this episode alone, we get no fewer than six shifts back and forth:
- The grove is damaged by volcanic ash. It must be the Stranger's fault; his previous good deeds are discounted.
- The Stranger is using magic to heal the tree. He's good again!
- (30 seconds later) Some Harfoot children were almost hurt because they got too close and a branch accidentally fell down. The Stranger is bad again.
- (the next morning} The tree magic kicked in overnight and now we have plenty of food. The Stranger is back in our good books!
- The caravan gets wrecked by the creepy people hunting the Stranger. We need to cut ties with him, despite our culture ostensibly being based on not leaving anyone behind.
- Nori's dad makes a painfully saccharine speech while looking directly into the camera half the time. The Stranger is okay after all, and we'll send our only navigator off to help while the rest of the tribe ... stays put in the location where they were just attacked? Idk.
The combined Númenor and Southlands subplots at least had events of consequence happen in episode 6, but I'm not a fan of how dirty they've done Galadriel. After her one shining moment of taking down a troll in the premiere, she's spent most of the rest of the season failing horribly at things. Her few remaining followers mutinied against her, she was effectively banished from her home kingdom, she pulled what should by all rights have been a suicidal stunt by jumping off the ship with no plan, she nearly got eaten by a sea monster, she would've died of exposure or thirst except for being saved by Elendil, she blundered around in Númenor and failed to make any headway in winning support for her cause until Halbrand explained extremely basically principles of interpersonal behavior to her, but in the end the Númenórean expeditionary force was only created because of Míriel's inexplicable decision to stake her credibility on Galadriel's claims without bothering to confirm that Halbrand wanted to be king. (If Míriel had talked to Halbrand directly, Galadriel's eleventh hour appeals wouldn't have mattered.) Once in Middle-earth, Galadriel participated in a successful battle—up until Adar's Orodruin gambit turned it into a defeat—but is still being presented as an emotionally broken husk who threatens to commit genocide because she can't conceive of herself living a life of peace.
If it turns out that she has in fact spent most of the season becoming friends (and building romantic tension) with her disguised arch-nemesis, I can't even say that would be out of character for show!Galadriel, since she's pretty much the opposite of wise, insightful, or difficult to fool. I hope this complaint doesn't come across the wrong way, because I don't want to be a grumpy purist about this and I think there are plenty of possibilities of canon-divergent characterizations for Galadriel that would've worked on their own merits. I don't think the showrunners were wrong to want her to serve as a flawed and relatable protagonist for ROP, but there is a wide spectrum of relatable flaws, with incompetent, entitled petulance being merely one extreme. I think it's unfortunate they went with it. And don't get me started on them introducing yet another mystery box with the ~mysterious~ fate of Celeborn when they still haven't revealed any of the identities of characters they've kept the audience guessing about. Sometimes, the showrunners' status as former JJ Abrams mentees is painfully obvious.
I think you heard right. I'm pretty sure he also said lótë "flower" and tuilë "spring [the season]" in there as well.Silky Gooseness wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:34 pmThe words the Stranger uses to revive the trees are certainly in Elvish, by the way - he clearly says Envinyatar, Renewer? And I think I heard Coivie - life - as well.
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I have to say if it wasn't for already having a Prime account long before the series was announced, Season 1 would not make me want to get an account. Episodes 3 and 4 were the strongest, 2 and 5 were watchable, but most of them are duds, and this one might be the worst of the season so far. The social aspect of just coming here to discuss each episode and watching the series with a group of friends who do not know the lore and answering their questions is keeping me watching. I'm enjoying the social aspect more than actually watching the series.
The series is a visual spectacle, and glamorous on the surface, but the glitz and glamor wear off when there is no substance and even worse it's dull. It feels like there's more questions, or riddles, for the audience to figure out than the show actually has answers at the moment. And most of the minor reveals so far are just bad. I liked the "sigil is a map of Mordor" reveal, that seemed logical and natural to reveal. The blood sword thing was a really cool weapon, but disappointing it just ended up being a key to release a dam and make Mount Doom erupt. The Elves needing vast quantities of mithril by Spring or else they'll die is frankly silly. I guess it's good Celebrimbor has enough to forge at least 1 ring. Is that enough to "saturate" all the Elves in Silmarillion light, like Celebrimbor said he wants to do? If the writing is bad, and you're not invested in most of the characters, the visual spectacle wears off.
The only possible thing that might save it, is Season 1 feels more like an off-kilter world building season, for new fans like my group of friends who have only seen the movies, and not for people like us? They're enjoying seeing the world and the characters, but I can see it even wearing off on them. They even mentioned how silly it is to try to fake us with Isildur's death. That's a really pointless and silly decision. You know, prequel shows and series have a problem with creating suspense and tension around characters we know aren't going to die, because they're in the sequel. Take the Kenobi series as an example, anyone who knows the Star Wars stories, know Obi-wan, Leia and Vader aren't going to die in the prequel series. I thought Season 1 of Kenobi was fantastic, it left me wanting a Season 2, even though I know I shouldn't. Because it was such a perfect conclusion to the Obi-wan/Vader tension, now where does the series go from there? I thought the Kenobi creators navigated that tension well, in not trying to trick us that somehow Obi-wan, Leia or Vader will die. It's pointless when the audience knows they can't. Even my friends recognize Isildur, because he has an iconic moment in the Prologue, that's a vital part in the entire story of Lord of the Rings. So, even fans not familiar with the lore are just head-scratching, why are they trying to tease us that Isildur is dead?
That's when I said, yeah they should have actually had Anarion in the story at this point. And make us think Isildur's younger brother was dead (or actually just killed him them) and there we go, you can have this drama that I'm interested in. But to make it Isildur and Elendil "I never want to come back here again. Isildur's dead" is utterly pointless drama. That gets me more riled up than the mithril silliness, because it's like they're trying to force us to care about whether characters are alive or dead, about a character that everyone knows can't be dead.
I feel I ranted enough, I had more problems with this episode than that, but it can be summed by the guy in Monty Python's Holy Grail shouting "Get on with it!" I don't mind a slow burn, it doesn't have to be "edge of your seat" like every GoT episode, but we still have to be invested in what happens and not waste our time with pointless, forced drama like "oh no, Isildur's dead." If Season 1 doesn't end with Celebrimbor holding a hammer, forging some Rings, then this will have been a disappointing Season 1. That's the title of your show, and I'm in the "Get on with it!" stage, after the stunning visuals are wearing off..
I will continue to put things I liked about each Episode, because maybe by the end we can combine all the best stuff together and it would make a good movie.
-I'm still mesmerized by Howard Shore's opening theme, listening to it and watching it.
-Durin Sr has remarkable screen presence. I enjoy every scene he's in with his son and it will be a loss when he leaves the screen for good.
-I really enjoyed Malva's character this episode. I'm the complete opposite of Eldy here. Should hobbits exist at this point? No. Are they in it because people like hobbits? Yes, but people liking hobbits isn't some new phenomenon. Tolkien was told one of the essential problems in The Silmarillion is there are no hobbits. Fans like hobbits, and sure they're in the series for that purpose, but I think the migratory Harfoot culture they created is the most convincing. It's a bit Darwinian, there's a darker side too it, but it's not unusual for migratory cultures to leave the sick, injured and older at the back, because it slows down the rest and unfortunately they are the weakest/easiest prey.
Anyway, with these proto-hobbits the series has actually convinced me they are proto-hobbits. The way they incorporate nature and camouflage to avoid "Big Folk" blundering through. The walking/traveling song in Episode 5, with the scenes of the Brandyfoots traveling together with the Stranger, and Poppy singing, were the most beautiful and best scenes of Season 1. I like how they're showing different hobbit personalities, and in Episode 7 it was Malva. I imagined her has a Lobelia character, crotchety and antagonistic towards the main, younger hobbits. There was a mention of Poppy playing a prank on her, that is reminiscent of the Bilbo/Frodo and Lobelia dynamic. But at the end of the day, Lobelia stood up to Sharkey's ruffians and ended up in jail. And at the end of the day here, Malva admits to being wrong and supporting the younger hobbits. But I can see the different hobbit personalities that make up their entire society.
The series is a visual spectacle, and glamorous on the surface, but the glitz and glamor wear off when there is no substance and even worse it's dull. It feels like there's more questions, or riddles, for the audience to figure out than the show actually has answers at the moment. And most of the minor reveals so far are just bad. I liked the "sigil is a map of Mordor" reveal, that seemed logical and natural to reveal. The blood sword thing was a really cool weapon, but disappointing it just ended up being a key to release a dam and make Mount Doom erupt. The Elves needing vast quantities of mithril by Spring or else they'll die is frankly silly. I guess it's good Celebrimbor has enough to forge at least 1 ring. Is that enough to "saturate" all the Elves in Silmarillion light, like Celebrimbor said he wants to do? If the writing is bad, and you're not invested in most of the characters, the visual spectacle wears off.
The only possible thing that might save it, is Season 1 feels more like an off-kilter world building season, for new fans like my group of friends who have only seen the movies, and not for people like us? They're enjoying seeing the world and the characters, but I can see it even wearing off on them. They even mentioned how silly it is to try to fake us with Isildur's death. That's a really pointless and silly decision. You know, prequel shows and series have a problem with creating suspense and tension around characters we know aren't going to die, because they're in the sequel. Take the Kenobi series as an example, anyone who knows the Star Wars stories, know Obi-wan, Leia and Vader aren't going to die in the prequel series. I thought Season 1 of Kenobi was fantastic, it left me wanting a Season 2, even though I know I shouldn't. Because it was such a perfect conclusion to the Obi-wan/Vader tension, now where does the series go from there? I thought the Kenobi creators navigated that tension well, in not trying to trick us that somehow Obi-wan, Leia or Vader will die. It's pointless when the audience knows they can't. Even my friends recognize Isildur, because he has an iconic moment in the Prologue, that's a vital part in the entire story of Lord of the Rings. So, even fans not familiar with the lore are just head-scratching, why are they trying to tease us that Isildur is dead?
That's when I said, yeah they should have actually had Anarion in the story at this point. And make us think Isildur's younger brother was dead (or actually just killed him them) and there we go, you can have this drama that I'm interested in. But to make it Isildur and Elendil "I never want to come back here again. Isildur's dead" is utterly pointless drama. That gets me more riled up than the mithril silliness, because it's like they're trying to force us to care about whether characters are alive or dead, about a character that everyone knows can't be dead.
I feel I ranted enough, I had more problems with this episode than that, but it can be summed by the guy in Monty Python's Holy Grail shouting "Get on with it!" I don't mind a slow burn, it doesn't have to be "edge of your seat" like every GoT episode, but we still have to be invested in what happens and not waste our time with pointless, forced drama like "oh no, Isildur's dead." If Season 1 doesn't end with Celebrimbor holding a hammer, forging some Rings, then this will have been a disappointing Season 1. That's the title of your show, and I'm in the "Get on with it!" stage, after the stunning visuals are wearing off..
I will continue to put things I liked about each Episode, because maybe by the end we can combine all the best stuff together and it would make a good movie.
-I'm still mesmerized by Howard Shore's opening theme, listening to it and watching it.
-Durin Sr has remarkable screen presence. I enjoy every scene he's in with his son and it will be a loss when he leaves the screen for good.
-I really enjoyed Malva's character this episode. I'm the complete opposite of Eldy here. Should hobbits exist at this point? No. Are they in it because people like hobbits? Yes, but people liking hobbits isn't some new phenomenon. Tolkien was told one of the essential problems in The Silmarillion is there are no hobbits. Fans like hobbits, and sure they're in the series for that purpose, but I think the migratory Harfoot culture they created is the most convincing. It's a bit Darwinian, there's a darker side too it, but it's not unusual for migratory cultures to leave the sick, injured and older at the back, because it slows down the rest and unfortunately they are the weakest/easiest prey.
Anyway, with these proto-hobbits the series has actually convinced me they are proto-hobbits. The way they incorporate nature and camouflage to avoid "Big Folk" blundering through. The walking/traveling song in Episode 5, with the scenes of the Brandyfoots traveling together with the Stranger, and Poppy singing, were the most beautiful and best scenes of Season 1. I like how they're showing different hobbit personalities, and in Episode 7 it was Malva. I imagined her has a Lobelia character, crotchety and antagonistic towards the main, younger hobbits. There was a mention of Poppy playing a prank on her, that is reminiscent of the Bilbo/Frodo and Lobelia dynamic. But at the end of the day, Lobelia stood up to Sharkey's ruffians and ended up in jail. And at the end of the day here, Malva admits to being wrong and supporting the younger hobbits. But I can see the different hobbit personalities that make up their entire society.
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Tis the season of Sean Bean prequel shows
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RE: Harfoots, part of me is glad Sadoc is going with Nori and Poppy, since Lenny Henry has put in arguably the best Harfoot performance thus far. I don't think it makes a ton of sense from an in-universe perspective for Sadoc to leave the rest of the tribe if he's their only navigator, but hopefully the four adventuring Harfoots will have an entertaining dynamic together. And hopefully we don't see the rest of them any more than LOTR proper cut back to the Shire after Frodo and co. left. 
The behavior of herd animals aside, I still think the Harfoots' blasé attitude towards someone possibly dying because he had a sprained ankle at a bad time was both ridiculous and not in keeping with the behavior of analogous Primary World human societies. But I've already said my piece on that.
The behavior of herd animals aside, I still think the Harfoots' blasé attitude towards someone possibly dying because he had a sprained ankle at a bad time was both ridiculous and not in keeping with the behavior of analogous Primary World human societies. But I've already said my piece on that.
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